Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman

When the Game Ends: Brain Trauma, Mental Health, and Life After Sports

• Bruce Parkman • Season 1 • Episode 78

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What happens to the brain—and identity—when the game ends?
 In this episode of Broken Brains, host Bruce Parkman sits down with Kurt A. David, Emmy Award–winning TV host, producer, and former professional basketball player, to unpack the often-overlooked connection between repetitive brain trauma, mental health, and life after high-performance careers.

Kurt shares his personal journey from elite athletics to life beyond sports, revealing how brain injuries, identity loss, and unaddressed mental health challenges affect both athletes and military veterans. He introduces his Five Rules for Successful Transition—a practical framework for navigating career endings, personal reinvention, and recovery. This conversation is a powerful call for awareness, proactive care, and purpose-driven recovery for anyone facing major life transitions.

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 Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Repetitive Brain Trauma

01:58 Kurt A. David's Journey in Sports

10:06 Transitioning from Professional Sports

12:29 The Reality of Athlete Life After Sports

19:05 Mental Health and Transition Challenges

19:41 Transitioning from Sports to Counseling

20:33 The Birth of a Book and TV Show

21:54 Inspiring Stories of Resilience

24:10 The Impact of CTE Awareness

26:46 The Emotional Toll of Transition

29:56 Five Rules for Successful Transition

37:30 The Importance of Recovery and Support

 

Connect with Kurt today.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kurt-david/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kurtadavidspeaks/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fromglorydaystv/

Produced by Security Halt Media

SPEAKER_02:

Hey folks, welcome to another episode of Broken Brains with your host, Bruce Parkman, sponsored by the Mac Parkman Foundation, where we look at the issue of repetitive brain trauma in two forms repetitive head impacts from contact sports and repetitive blast exposure from our military veterans. And what these two conditions are doing to the brain health and mental well-being of our veterans, kids, and athletes around this country. The issue is most importantly is that the issue of repetitive brain trauma and the connections to mental illness is not taught in our psychological, medical, nursing, or suicide prevention courses, which makes you the first line of defense in this issue. So we bring on the leading researchers and scientists and players and patients and doctors and authors to talk about this issue so that you get that 360-degree perspective of it so that you can make informed decisions about those that you love or that those that you know that could be suffering. On the show today, another esteemed guest, Mr. Kurt A. David, is an ME award-winning TV host, producer, and author, best known for From Glory Days, the acclaimed television series and book highlighting how Hall of Fame and world champion athletes successfully transition after professional sports. A former professional basketball player, Kurt reinvented his career by developing the Five Rules, a framework for navigating rapid change. These principles propelled his success as the founder of the Glory Days Productions and co-founder of PurposePoint.com and author of two books on transition and personal empowerment. Kurt's transitional transition strategies have been adopted by leaders and organizations worldwide. He has presented to hundreds of companies, to include Amcor, More Pace, Blue Cross, Blue Shield, financial institutions, medical organizations, and government agencies, helping teams reconnect with purpose and thrive through change. Kurt, welcome to the show, sir. Bruce, it's an honor. Thank you for having me. Glad to have you here, sir. So tell us uh tell us a little about yourself. Where did you grow up, man? How did you what was your journey through childhood that got you into professional sports?

SPEAKER_01:

No, I appreciate that. I always tell people you can't talk about me without talking about my foundation. And my foundation was I grew up there was eight of us in a house in northern Michigan with one bathroom. So you learn early on in life that life is not about you when you have eight of you in a house with one bathroom. And so very different than today's standard. A lot of people, if they don't have their own bathroom or bedroom, something's wrong. But yeah, the funny part is, Bruce, is that all six of us kids, there was eight of us, two parents and then six kids, all six of us kids were on full right athletic scholarship and two of us played professionally. So imagine that household growing up, extremely competitive, right? The good news is my mom was a teacher and a coach and an athletic director at the local uh private school that we all attended. And so we had keys to the gym anytime that we wanted. And I attribute that to the 10,000 hours that we all needed to get to that highest level. And so we were in the gym every day, Christmas Day after opening presents, Thanksgiving after eating a big dinner. The nice thing is that we had access like that. And so we're very fortunate. But very competitive household. My father was a director of social services for the county, so kind of a give back. Uh, and then I mentioned about my mother being a coach and teacher and athletic director, obviously serving others as well. And so that was ingrained and it's in the marrow of my bone as a result of serving others. And so that was my foundation growing up. Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh and and so what kind of sports did you play when you were in school? Did were you just focused on basketball, or are you one of those two and three sports play uh sports players that we hardly see in high school anymore?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, no, it's uh it's a great question because uh I think to probably frame that is in seventh grade I was 5'11, and by the end of my eighth grade year, I was six foot five. And so I screw six inches in that time frame, and it was very painful, but also kind of steered me towards a certain direction. So basketball became my sport. You know, the great news is I was dunking in eighth grade, and I ended up being six nine is what I am now. You can't tell on a podcast, but I'm six foot nine inches tall, so horse jockey didn't quite work out for me. So basketball was the next best thing. But yeah, all five five of the six kids played college basketball, and like I said, two of us played pro. And my older sister was a runt the litter. She was only five foot six, so she ran track at a Division I school. That was her sport. And so, yeah, basketball was our most of the sports, but we played wiffle ball growing up, all different sports, football in the backyard, you know, whatever it took at that time. And so it was great. It was one of those times where you didn't come home unless it was dark or you were hungry, right? I mean, that's the upbringing that I had up in northern Michigan.

SPEAKER_02:

Back when your kids were allowed to roam the streets and you weren't worried about them, you know. You just uh I can remember my stepmom just yell, we would wait for the there's the dinner bell. Bro, say she would start screaming, and we'd all have it was all time to go home. So um so basketball it was, and where did you play basketball in college?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I played high school, played a division two uh up in Saginaw Valley State. Literally, uh when I was looking at college opportunities, I wanted to come in and play right away, so I came in and started as a freshman at that school. As most athletes, so you have this turbulent time, right? There's uh a chip in the in the armor, so to speak, as far as confidence. And you know, I'm I I wish it was a pure ride the whole four years that I was there, but uh it was a roller coaster ride. Fortunately, at the end of my senior year in college, I had an opportunity to play overseas. I was working a couple basketball camps, and one of the guys there played over in Europe, and he coached actually over in Europe, and he says, hey, you're pretty good. Would you be interested in coming over to Europe and play? And uh I didn't have to think twice about that. So I had an opportunity to play overseas. You know, it wasn't the NBA, but certainly it was something that uh when you get paid to do something that you love, how can you complain? And and travel and see the world on on their dime, so to speak. It was great, great opportunity. The only problem, Bruce, is that I was going to be 5,000 miles away from my family and friends in a country whose language I didn't speak. So, and I really didn't know what to expect as far as basketball, but it was a great experience. Uh, we went undefeated in a league that first year. Literally, I was tra I don't know, 24, 25 points a game. Living the life of a rock star, no question about it. But as we know in pro sports or any sport, at some point it is ultimately over. And as I tell people, 100% of professional athletes ultimately lose their job at some point. Amen. What country did you play in? Uh I was in Germany. Yeah, but got to travel all over. Yeah, we played in France and Austria and you know, Belgium, a lot of the neighboring countries as well, and got to see some of the other countries when I was over there. And so, yeah, it was a great experience, you know, really. But I as I tell people, that was 40 pounds ago. I don't go by years, I go by pounds. Right. So that was 40 pounds ago. The body's changed. Your gray married just ain't what she used to be. And uh, you know, a couple thorn Achilles uh in my older years now, too. It's like, okay, why am I still doing this?

SPEAKER_02:

These days are those glory days, right, are over. Yeah, for you it was Achilles. For me, it was concussions, man. I was uh I had a couple of them in the game not too long ago. I'm in my 60s, so I gotta I stopped playing. What was there what was what sport were you playing that? You had concussions, if I can ask. Oh, rugby, man. I was uh an all-army rugby player, and then I retired from the Army. I played semi-pro for a couple years, and then uh me and my buddies uh we decided to form a military rugby club, and we play at one or two con one or two shows, I mean one or two uh tests every year, so we show up and uh it's one a year now. I I mean I don't I don't I don't play anymore. We're all social now. We're all I play to bagpipes, we all I don't even drink anymore, but you know, I they I just play to bagpipes, drink tie coach and watch, man. So it's yeah, that's blast. Well, it's it hurt as much.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, not well, not to go sideways on our conversation, Bruce, but you know, when I got done playing, I was a varsity basketball coach, and one of the things I did to inspire my players, my basketball players, was has have them watch Australian rules football and rugby matches. Because I said, You guys think you're tough? Look at these guys. This Australian rules football and these rugby guys, you know, it's a different mentality, no question about it. Amen, dude.

SPEAKER_02:

It's uh I always tell football guys, man, you're just a you're a sport for fat kids, man. I mean, come on, dude. All that you can't, you can't you take breaks every five minutes, or not even a play lasts two, two twenty seconds, and you guys are taking breaks, man, you know? So, no, I mean, uh, I love my NFL buddies. Yeah, so a little quick question. You played in Germany. So um, was there any limitations on the amount of Americans that can play on a team?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. At that time there was two Americans or two foreigners, as they call them, per team. So my teammate was from Clemson. Uh, he was a point guard, and then I was a forward over there. And so between both of us, we averaged over 50 points a game. We were the lion's share of the team as far as scoring, which is what you're hired for, right? You know, they hire you for a specific task, typically sport scoring. And so, yeah, it was a lot of fun. It really was. I mean, it really was a pretty low-key. It's different than the NBA, too, is our schedule was pretty light. We had one or two games a week. That was it. And so, different than an NBA schedule where you're playing three, four nights a week and traveling on the road, it was a pretty light schedule. I had a lot of downtime, and so it gave me a chance to tour, meet a lot of people, got to speak the language, you know, eventually learned German, so that was a bonus to it to being able to do that, and met a lot of great people. I mean, it's neat because everybody talks about my heights, but during that time, and actually before that, when I was in college, I played against a guy seven foot eight. And you talk about, you know, understanding what people put up with me now. I'm looking up at this guy like, oh my goodness, now I know what everybody has to put up with me as far as normal population. But yeah, and so, you know, that's probably one of the biggest things I miss, similar to the military, you know, it's one of the things, and we'll talk about that later. That's one of the things I miss is that that teamwork and being around guys my size and part of the tribe or part of the community or part of the locker room, right? You know, that's the biggest thing in that transition that I think we miss as athletes. But I saw a lot of parallels with the military as well when you go through that transition. Absolutely. Did you have to wear you have to have an A on your uniform? No, I did not. No, I just they just knew I was American because I I'd spoke English. Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

So the reason I'm asking is my nephew's a quarterback in the European football in the NFL over there right now. And they have two players on a team, but they have to wear an A. It's like a target, right? Because everybody tries to get the Americans because they're better than everybody on the field, right? So they go, so he's the quarterback. He's getting knocked around out of time.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and Bruce, I can and I guess humbly say that they didn't have to guess who the American was on our team between me and my Clemson teammate. Because we were lighting it up every night. Dude, that's so cool, man. So how long did you do that? Not long enough, as they say. Just a couple seasons. I came back for a uh free agent tryout, had a free agent tryout out in San Francisco. There was 18 of us by invite. Uh, coaches from all over the nation and the pro leagues came over to watch us. And then I went in for knee surgery, and I knew I injured myself. I had an injury over there. I hyperextended my knee, and I knew right away that it was, you know, a pretty serious injury, but I thought, boy, if I'm gonna try it, I gotta come back to the States and try to make it over here. So I came back for that tryout, toughest three days of basketball, all I saw was a hotel and a gym for three days straight. Went in for knee surgery about a month after that and found out it was time to get a real job. The orthopedic surgeon basically said, Kurt, you can keep walking by the time or not, you know, keep playing and not walk by the time you're 40, or you can give up this game at this level. And so, you know, as a 27, 28-year-old kid, it was kind of a uh easy choice where it's like, yeah, you know, it it's time to move on, and and um that transition's tough, you know. You you're so used to a lifestyle, you're so used to, you know, a certain uh schedule and and uh you know the the glamour of it all being somebody, then all of a sudden who am I again and what's my purpose? All those things that you lose when you go that through that transition.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I mean it's it's very similar when I talk to NFL players, public safety people, police firemen, and and military guys, right? Is that you do something for a while and then and and and it and it brings a lot to your personal identity, right? Whether you're in the military, you're a professional player, or you're a public servant. I mean, that's who you are, right? That's and that becomes you. And then when that those days end, it's like so yeah, and and transition's tough no matter where you are in this world, but it's it's it's you know, it is a little bit uh harder only because the skills that you learn in the military, public safety, and as a professional player usually don't translate to great career opportunities.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and you're one of a a minute percent, right? I mean, it's less than one-tenth of one percent that'll make pro athlete and and you know, military as well, when you talk about special ops or people that are high caliber type. Yeah, you know, just to throw out some stats at you, too, these are stats that were released some years ago by Sports Illustrated. You know, I mentioned about 100% of professional athletes ultimately lose their job. Well, here's the sobering stats about that. 25% of NFL players are broke within the first year out. Think about that. 25%. 75% of NFL players are broke within two years out. And it's not much better for the NBA. 60% of NBA players are broke within five years. And it's not just about the money, it's relationships. 80% of professional athletes ultimately experience divorce during that transition period. So from job loss to disaster, that's the reality. And so, you know, I see a lot of similar parallels with with the uh military as well, going back to civilian life. You know, you lose that identity. And you know, the joke between pro-athletes and military, though, is that, you know, the military say, you know, hey, yeah, but you're not getting shot at. And uh the pro pro athletes say, yeah, but you have job security. I could lose my job any day, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and so I mean it's it professional sports is no joke, man. I mean, uh I mean you're everybody wants your job. There's always people looking for your job. You gotta be have your A game on. There's a lot of stress there. Yes. And uh and those and those you be mentioned a fact earlier, you're talking about the the one-tenth of one percent out there, and and that's what we're trying to get parents to understand because we are so hyper-focused on sports right now. And it can be any sport. Now, in this program, we're kind of focused on contact sports because they provide a lot of risk. And I will and I and I say this often, and I don't know if you know this, but in the in the chronic traumatic encephalopathy brain back in Boston University, there are no basketball players. There are no baseball players, there are no swimmers, volleyball players, tennis players, golfers, but they are football players, wrestlers, rugby players, hockey players, lacrosse players, soccer players. I was just gonna say soccer. As a matter of fact, soccer next year is supposed to eclipse football for the first time in a number of concussions that we have as a sport. It is a contact sport. So, you know, we we try to get parents that are so obsessed to understand that look, all right, you you know, got a c you gotta get a college ride, okay. We're working with the sports to make them safer. But your child's not gonna be a professional athlete. I'm sorry. Okay, and if they are, they're extremely they're they're very, very good, obviously, and they're extremely lucky because you got the what they call the injury lottery, right? Who's gonna take it now? Like your knee, right? I mean, who's what injury's gonna happen to what person? And let me ask you a question here. In the NBA, what's the average length of an NBA career? Do you have any idea?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and I know overall in pro sports, if you look at the four majors, is three point two years, right? So three point two years is my my small win, and that's the average. That's my window of opportunity to make that kind of money to play at that level. So you think about it, I mean, 3.2 years, that's a small amount of our lifespan, you know, God willing. And so when you look at that, it's like, wow, okay, and that's the average. Now you hear about the guys that are playing 12 years, 15 years, you know, you get a freak every once in a while, like Jerry Rice or or you know, Tom Brady that plays in her 40s. But most of the time, you know, people are done in their 20s, mid to early 20s, even sometimes. And so, regardless of the sport. And, you know, our bodies are designed to, I guess, to I look at my body now the way it is, and it's like, wow, you know, I took a beating during those years, and you know, now I'm paying for it. I mean, you understand, like you mentioned from your years of playing it.

SPEAKER_02:

I got shoulder surgery in two weeks, my back went out last week, I might have to get that operated on, the other one, the other rotator cuff's gone, but it was a hell of a ride.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, let me let me put a plug-in. Yeah, Bruce, let me put a plug-in then because I found something, uh, let's see, it's been eight years ago now that changed my body. I mean, I was ready for knee replacement, hip surgery, back, you know, and I found out about stem cell therapy. And so I I I had stem cell therapy eight years ago, and it healed my body, literally. Wow. And so I've been very fortunate. I always encourage people to do their own research, take a look at it. Yeah. You know, some people think, oh, it's illegal. No, it's not illegal. It's it's legal. It's just not insurance doesn't cover it, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. And what kind of stem cells did you use? Was it adipose, umbilical, or I used the uh blood cord, yeah, the umbilical cord.

SPEAKER_01:

So from live birth babies, you know, we made sure they were live birth babies. And so we used the umbilical cord. It's the most potent because babies have the most, I mean, all of us have stem cells in our body. It's just as we age, we have less and less because their job is to replenish tissue. I mean, that's their job in our body.

SPEAKER_02:

No, yeah. The uh unfortunately my rotator cuffs cannot be repaired by stem cells. I have to grow about three inches of muscle to get this one to attach bed. But you know, no, good point. And we we have had uh stem cell folks on a couple of them on the program so far talk very, very well about stem cells and how they can be used. And I guess now the industry is kind of moving towards these peptides where a lot of good potential with those as well. I mean, there's a lot of great things out there, and it's it's it's very fortunate that you're able to heal yourself and keep going, you know?

SPEAKER_01:

I'm convinced regenerative medicine is the future of medicine. It's just there's a lot of forces, you know, that go a different direction, and so it's just a matter of uh how that change is going to happen. No doubt.

SPEAKER_02:

Farmer wants us sick forever, dude. They, you know, it's and that's the problem when we talk we start talking about mental illness, which is really not too much associated with the NBA and Major League Baseball because of the lack of exposure that the heads have, right? But on the other side of the on the on on the problem, you know, we we have mental health problems, and you know, instead of curing things, everybody, you know, so there's a pill, and there's a pill for this, and then that creates symptoms. And whether it's a pro athlete or a veteran, I mean I've talked to veterans right now, they're on 15 plus medications because of the damage to the brain that still hasn't been diagnosed. They're just mentally ill. And nobody's trained on the connection between mental illness and a uh and a damaged brain. So what was your yeah, obviously you had like little to no transition plan when that doctor told you that you better start or stop walking. So I think what did what did you do, man?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, no, what was next step? This is a perfect perfect segue uh to what we were just talking about. I I took a year off. I mean, I just I was just not really sure what I wanted to do and just kind of lost and you know, angry and some of those emotions that we go through. But part through part way through that year, I got tired of being angry and kind of aimless, so I decided to go to graduate school and started a big chunk of my master's in counseling. So I have a master's in counseling. And so kind of down that same line we just talked about mental health and and how that impacts everybody, right? Not just athletes, but military and people that are going through challenges. But uh that really set me in a good course because you know it really gave me a foundation to say, boy, this is the next. Phase of my life now. And during that time also, I became a counselor. In fact, I was a middle school counselor, is what I did when I was done playing Pro Ball. And so it was a great experience. I love being around kids. My mom was a teacher, as I mentioned, and a coach. And so it was a great experience. But part the way through that transition and through that time, many years later, I had an idea. And that idea was to sit down and interview other former professional athletes and hear about how they successfully transition. And that's what spawned the idea of my first book, From Glory Days: Successful Transitions of Professional Detroit Athletes, in which I interviewed 20 former Detroit Pistons, Tigers, Red Wings, and Lions about their successful transition after Pro Sports. And that was neat here, you know, sitting down with people that were Hall of Famers, they won World Series, whatever their accomplishment was, and to hear about how they recreated that success afterwards. And everybody had their own stories about how they did it. And that book turned into a TV show. We did four seasons of the TV show, 50 TV interviews. I ended up winning an Emmy Award with my interview with Rocky Blyer out of Pittsburgh. Rocky's got an amazing story.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, he's the guy that made the toe catch, right? And to win the Super Bowl, right? Yeah. Yeah. He's a Vietnam vet.

SPEAKER_01:

He was a Vietnam vet. A funny story about Rocky, and you'd appreciate this as a military guy. So he got drafted. He won a national championship at Notre Dame, got drafted by the Steelers, played one year in the NFL. He's in the locker room in the Steelers' locker room, and a guy walks up with a draft letter, literally. He's in the locker room, he gets the letter, opens it up. It's a Vietnam draft letter. Got a report tomorrow. Literally. Gosh. And so he contacted the military, said, hey, listen, you know, I don't know what happened. Well, come to find out it was hung up in the Pittsburgh Steeler mailbox for a while, right? Before they gave it to him. And so they gave him a few extra days, but they're like, hey, yeah, you still got to report, right? And so he literally went from the field to the NFL to the field to Vietnam and got shot in one leg, hang grenade shrapnel in another leg. Literally, he's sitting in a military hospital in Japan, and the doctor's like, oh yeah, you'll walk again. And he's like, Walk. I want to play football. He's like, You'll never play football again. Rocky came back and won four Super Bowls after that. And so just an amazing story. And, you know, the war hero, obviously multi-super Bowl champion. And now he's a speaker, travels all over, has a couple companies that he runs in Pittsburgh, and just, you know, tells his story. He ribs Tarkington or not Tarkington, uh, Bradshaw a lot. I guess that's how he on his presentations, he does a lot of ribbing of Bradshaw, who was a quarterback at that time. And so but yeah, just No, keep going, sorry. It was a great opportunity for me to be able to sit down and interview athletes with the book, interview them for the TV show. And it was honestly kind of therapeutic for me as well to hear their stories because I was able to resonate and recognize a lot of those aspects.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it was actually Rocky Bly's uh Super Bowl teams that got the whole CTE thing going on with Mike Webster and uh Webster. Yeah. Yep, can't remember a couple of the other players, uh, one that died in that horrible suicide crash with the gasoline truck. But they were the they they basically were the ones that got, you know, at least the awareness of CTE going, which then led to the understanding now that it's not about concussions, it's about all those little hits we take or all those blasts that we take as veterans that are messing our brains up. And it's amazing that what was what was Mr. Bly's uh position in football?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, he was a running back. Yeah, he was running back, exactly. So he was getting a lot of hits. Yeah, he was interesting. Interesting because one of the guys interviewed was Lem Barney, he was a Hall of Fame Detroit Lion, and Lem was rookie of the year, played ten seasons with the Detroit Lions, and years later he was telling me about how he went in to uh get a CAT scan, right? And the uh neurologist at that time said, Boy, you've had eight concussions, huh? And he's like, No, what are you talking about? He says, Yeah, here's one here, here's one here, here's one here. And he's like, he had no idea. He he said he remembers a couple times being knocked out, right? Being blacked out, and and you know, at that time you just kind of get some smelling salts and get back in the game, basically. And so, but yeah, he was uh shocked by that. And now, unfortunately, he has some some cognitive issues as a result of those throughout all those years.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. And that's you know, and that's an unfortunate side of this issue is that a lot of times, like uh I I had a mental health breakdown three and a half years ago. It turned out once I educated the VA that you know, 21 years of military service, green beret, parachute jumps, four different combat zones, and throw on a rugby career, you know, not good for the brain, but it takes time to catch up to you, even if you're take care of yourself. And um, that's unfortunate to hear, and I'll say a prayer for him. I just uh appreciate that. You know, it's just uh but it is a side effect of these of these sports that we're trying to make society aware of, not to not to you know, to cancel sports or anything like that. It's like how do we make them safer? Right. And that all comes down to starting later and then reducing the amount of contacts we have because I mean, as a basketball player, I mean, how many thousands of free throws did you make, you know, to keep that arc and uh to make sure that they went through that neck?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, part of part of my workout routine when I was playing at the highest level was I had to make ten free throws with my eyes closed before I could leave the gym. I mean, literally, it was muscle memory. In a row? So yeah, oh yeah. Ten free throws in a row with my eyes closed. It w it was that, that, you know, rigid that, hey, you know, you've got to get this down so it's like nothing, right? And and so it it's uh and that was just me. Other people do different things, you know, some people have to have so many dribbles in or so many uh, you know, whatever it is, layups or but for me it was I had to make ten free throws with my eyes closed uh in a row before I could leave the gym. And uh many times I would spend hours there. It's like, oh I can't believe yet. So and I always believe you had a finish on a make, or you know, regardless of the workout. And so it was always finish on a make. And so But you know, it's interesting because I've talked to some good friends of mine that literally they have their personalities have changed. Like a good friend of mine, he he he was married over 30 years, played football, played baseball in college, all American, played professional baseball, and then all of a sudden his personality started changing and ended up getting a divorce. You know, it was really fortunate because he's a good guy, but you could see the personality change happening many years later. And unfortunately, too, a lot of these athletes, and I'm sure military self-medicate, right? That's their way of coping with some of the challenges that they have, and and uh they turn to that as a result. And you know, you and I know that those directions are not healthy because those can, you know, whatever happens as a result of that as well, depending on the self-medication that they're doing. But it's unfortunate. And so what I appreciate about what you're doing, Bruce, is is it's awareness, getting awareness. It's not just contact sports, but like you said, the concussion of of military things that are loud. Yeah, you know, I I've gotten my teeth knocked out, or tooth knocked out at least. I've got my teeth knocked around, but I had one totally knocked out of my mouth. And so, you know, there's no question there was a concussion type reaction to that as well. But yeah, it's it regardless of the sport, I think the biggest thing is people, especially parents. I think that's the biggest thing. Parents being aware. And I know there's more and more programs that are trying to head this off, no pun intended, but they're trying to head it off by having scans or, you know, boy, let's do more protocols for concussion. Like our daughter plays soccer, she's going to college. In fact, here's a little shout-out. She'll be in Florida next year playing out of Daytona State, who just won a national championship. They just won a national championship back to back. And so she'll be down there next year. But my point is, even in soccer, she's had to sit out for a concussion she had a couple years ago. And I'm just always concerned about that of you know the long-term effects.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. So we just had a guest on the show that was talking about how you can have a concussion, and if you're not sleeping right, I mean, they're talking months after the concussion, the same symptoms of that concussion will come back under sleep deprivation. And these are things that parents aren't looking for. Like your buddy that changed his personality. We have, I don't know how many individuals that have played a lot of contact sports, and you just name your sport, all of a sudden they go through these personality challenges and they or they, you know, bad business decisions and marital breakups or whatever, and their lives just go down the tube. And nobody is, they're just saying, oh, you're crazy, or or whatever their thing is, but nobody's saying, could it have been contact sports? Was it football? Because there's no awareness about this out there. And some people say, you know, it probably could he play a lot of football and they'll get poo-pooed or nah, you know, because nobody was this is one of those monkey see, monkey do things, right? People do not want to see this truth. Because guys like me have to own up to the fact that I own this, that I allowed my son to play too many contact sports. I wasn't no, I did not know it. Hurt him. I would have never allowed him to play him. But I'm the guy that said, yeah, you want to play football? Okay, let's go. Let's get you the best helmets. Didn't know that the helmets are only designed to protect the skull, but they don't stop the brain from shifting all the time. We've got millions of parents in this country making uninformed decisions that impact the entire futures of their children. And um, and that's why when we hear these stories about people with personality changes and they go through life and they don't even get any closure, now they think they're crazy, right? But they don't know it's from football or whatever. But the awareness, you know, from the professional side of things, that is getting the attention it needs, right? These ball players do know they're dinged up and there's a price to pay for that. What they don't know is that they can be treated. And that's where um you know things things start, that's where we can really make a change. But in your talks with these players, what do you think was the most common denominator personality-wise? Or what what allowed them when so many other athletes can't make that transition? I mean, I'm talking, I I have a buddy right now that had four NFL players on a high school team, all of them suffering from you know, astute mental illness, can't get going. You know, they they didn't make the three they didn't make the four years to get their benefits from the NFL because that's the you know, they're the house, right? They know 3.2, like you said, 3.2, 3.5. It ain't four. Okay. So they don't get any benefits. They're out there trying to figure out how to get going all over again. And you talked to a bunch of amazing successful athletes.

SPEAKER_01:

What what what did you Yeah, boy, you know, there's actually five things I discovered by interviewing these athletes and looking at my own life as well, that there was five commonalities of success that these athletes did to find success again. And the first one, I I call them my five rules of success. In other words, I'm kind of a simple guy, so I had to think of an acronym to try to remember what the five things were. So I created a word rules. R U L E S, because we have rules of life, we have rules in sports. So these are the five roles for success when transitioning. And to be honest, these can be um applicable to anybody going through a change, whether it be an organization, an individual from sports. I mean, I speak to a lot of pro sports teams, youth sports teams, but I also speak to companies and corporations that are going through change. And so the first R stands for refocus. What I've discovered, Bruce, is that everybody going through a transition has a period of refocus. This is where you take a look at your current goals and say, what are my new goals? I'll give you a great example. I had an Olympic athlete out of Houston that reached out to me, says, Hey, I heard you're the guy that deals with sports transition. And I'm like, okay, tell me more. He says, Well, I just want to medal in Olympics. And I'm like, okay, you have my attention. And he's like, Yeah, I just don't know what I want to do. So we started talking about his gifts and abilities and what does he enjoy and what is he like, and you know, because it's so easy as an athlete to develop goals. I mean, it really is. As an athlete, you know, in the military, you you have clear objectives, right? Those are your goals, your objectives. And so post-sports, post-military, uh, you know, coming up with ideas of boy, what is it that I want to do? What is it that I feel like my gifts are and my abilities, and and that's the refocus period. It's kind of a strategic plan. That's the very first step. Getting clarity on that of what is my next step. Here's what I've found from the athletes that I've interviewed, though, is that the the athletes that have a degree of some type have something to fall back on at least. Maybe they don't do what their degree was, but at least they had something to fall back on. I found that commonality because those athletes that had a degree to say, boy, I got a degree in communications, or I got a degree in business, or I have this degree, well, at least they could fall back on that as part of their transition period. Now, the ones that didn't have a degree really they were like, I don't know. You know, I all I know is sports. I've been doing this since I've been 10 years old, right? And so having that refocus is very important. The next letter U stands for using your network. In other words, we all have a vast network of people around us, internally, externally. And once we have clarity of what our refocus is, our new goals, our new passion and purpose, we have to tap into our network to say, hey, listen, you know, this is what I'm looking at doing now. A great example of that is I had a former Detroit Red Wing that he got his financial advising series seven license. And he went out to all of his network and said, Hey, listen, I'm no longer playing pro soccer, I'm a financial advisor. If I can help you, let me know. Which brings up an important part. When you're using your network, it's not using and abusing people, it's creating win-win relationships. And he was looking for ways to help people. Hey, I got this knowledge if you're interested. And his business skyrocketed as a result of him tapping into that network as a result. So refocusing, which helps create that passion and purpose in our lives again, which is very important for athletes and military and people that are high caliber type people. We need that passion and purpose. And then using our network to tap into it to say, hey, this is what I'm doing now. Any ideas, or where can I go from here? Is there connections? The next letter L, bar none without a challenge, is the most difficult to do, at least for pro athletes. Letting go. Letting go. It's in the marrow of our bone to never give up, right? We fall down seven, get up eight. That's kind of the mentality that we have. And so letting go is very difficult. However, it is probably one of the most important emotional aspects of a transition is to let go of the fact that, hey, I'm done. I'm no longer a pro-basketball player. I'm no longer a high-caliber military. And sometimes letting go means letting go of successes as well as our failures. Maybe it's a type of thinking, well, I don't think I can do this. Sometimes we have to let that go. A great example of that is everybody's different. Everybody's different with their own timetable, kind of like grief. Everybody has their own timetable. I had a pro baseball player that his agent reached out to me and said, Hey, my pitcher just got released in spring training. Can you sit down with them? So I sat down with him. I started working through these five rules, got to letting go. Within two weeks, he goes, Kurt, I'm done. I'm done playing pro baseball. He had clarity of what his refocus was, where he was going to be. He started tapping those network. Boom. He was moving on within two weeks. To the contrary, I've talked to guys 10 years later that they still haven't let go, right? Hey, I still can play. Well, you know, not according to the league, you can't, right? They would have called you by now. But seriously, though, yeah, so everybody has their own timetable, but letting go is so important because it's an emotional aspect of moving forward. The E, the R-U-L-E, stands for execute your plan. And the reason why that's there is because as we have a refocus and develop our plan and strategic plan, typically it's not one and done. We don't have this plan, we don't execute it, and all of a sudden it's all done. Rarely do we do that as a person. We have to sometimes adapt, we have to adjust. I like using the PDCA process, which plans for stands for plan, do, check, and adjust. In other words, you make your plan, which is your refocus, you do it, you check the results, and this is where the haves from the have nots separate. You adjust and do it all over again. And as a result, you know, you execute your plan, and that plan might mean adapting a little bit as you have planned on doing one thing, but oh boy, I got to adapt it and try something else as a result. Very important aspect of that transition. The last letter, R-U-L-E-S, stands for someone. What I've discovered is is athletes and people of high caliber that had a transition found someone, a mentor, so to speak, that helped them transition. Maybe it was not somebody necessarily older, but somebody that is where they want to be. And as a result, they were able to get through that quicker because they had that mentor that helped them through that. So those are the five commonalities that I discovered with that transition. So are you L E S? That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02:

And I think that I think a lot of our folks that listen to this show, military and you know, athletes as well, have a lot to learn from that because it's not just professional athletes. By the time, you know, I talked, gosh, man, when when my son played high school football, all the dads, all they could talk about was all they did in high school. I mean, they're still telling football stories to crying out loud. And if you make it into college, you know less. So the letting go applies not just to professionals, it's everybody. I would add another R to your first R, especially if you played contact sports and if you're a military guy, and that's recovery. It's like you've got to get your brain right. If your brain has been beaten around to the point where you're having issues, go get those fixed. Because we have all kind we now know there are all kinds of modalities out there because you can't execute the five rules without a functioning, you know, mechanism up here, right? Your brain housing group that's in good shape. And so there's a lot of things we can do now. If you played football or wrestling, not we, but this there's out there that we can put that brain back in order so that you can execute that transition plan because it is so important. And I'm glad you brought that up because you know, a lot of the folks that um you know listen to this, and we all need transition. You can transition from a career for crying out loud, but understanding the you know how successful people do it is uh I mean, I was unemployed for a year. I was so depressed I couldn't, I was a Green Beret sergeant major pirate ship captain, and I could not get a job. I was literally getting ready to become Paul Blart. I was gonna be a mall cop. I was at Walmart security with a master's degree and a security clearance. I could not find a job. This is pre-9-11, but you know, still it was devastating. Uh, you know, I just got married, I had two children, I couldn't, you know, I had my pension, but I couldn't get a job. And it was uh that's why I started playing semi-pro rugby, and I didn't get paid. It was just it was just horrible. But uh no, I really appreciate you um bringing that up. So, you know, Kurt, as uh as we get ready to close out, I like to offer our guests the time to talk about themselves, right? How do people find you? What do you have going on? What's next? What's the next chapter for Kurt David? I said go ahead and let us have it, man. What's going on?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, no, I appreciate that question. Well, people can find me at KurtDavid.com, that's the easiest thing. Kurtdavid.com, the website. I'm on LinkedIn. I live on LinkedIn as well. If you find me uh Kurt A. David. I use the A simply because a lot of people confuse my first and last name. You know, sometimes they call me David. Yeah, and so I use the A for formal introductions. Kurt A. David. So yeah, if you go on LinkedIn, Kurt A. David, you'll find me there. But yeah, you know, just Google me, you'll find all the fun stuff I'm doing. What I've found though, what and one of my new passions is that we literally have found a lot of parallels between what military go through and what pro athletes go through in that transition. And so, you know, we have the radio show from Glory Days Veterans Edition. In fact, we just had Denny on, and that was a great interview hearing uh him talk about his transition and and uh life.

SPEAKER_02:

Denny's awesome.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely. And so I'm so glad for that introduction. And so we, you know, want to continue helping veterans as well, uh, understanding that the successes that they can have. So we've done probably eighty different radio interviews and podcast interviews of veterans. And how they've recreated that success and what they're doing now. So uh yeah, if you go to uh to KurtDavid.com, you'll see the connection to the TV show, you'll see the connection to the radio show. I also do speaking on the top of change and transition using my five commonalities as well as how do you lead change, how do you communicate change. So tap in some of my counseling background as well as communication and how do we communicate while we're changing. And so it's, you know, my passion and purpose is to serve others and serve God, right? I mean, using the gift and abilities that I have. And so that's that's my purpose while I still have breath is to help others and use the gifts and abilities that I've been provided.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, it's obvious that that the Lord's blessed you with the passion and commitment to help others, and that's exactly what you're doing. I mean, change to our audience out there is scary no matter what you're looking at. And sometimes we all need somebody to talk to. You know, based on your your story, Mr. David, you're highly recommended out there. You know, now we have another person that we can all reach out to. And thank you for your support of our veteran communities. It's uh they they they need that help and they need that attention because there are, you know, we have the same problem as professional athletes. A lot of our military veterans struggle with transition, they just can't get going. My stepson, you know, he wants to get back in the military because it's so different out here in the civilian yeah, right. But may the Lord bless you for what you're doing right now. And can you I hope your journey continues to be a peaceful and productive one. And uh look forward to talking to you and meeting you someday for sure. No, I appreciate it. Likewise as well, Bruce. Appreciate what you're doing. All right, sir. Thank you so much. Well, folks, another awesome edition. And that was kind of like a self-guided and kind of like a self-help tour here on the on the on the Broken Brains, man, which is awesome, man. This is great. It's a great to be able to benefit our audience in so many ways out there. Don't forget, the book, Broken Brains, is free on our website. Okay. Please get informed on this issue of repetitive brain trauma. Um, and and get and and please understand what's going out there. Take the podcast wherever you want, like it, love it, pass it around, let people know that we're out there. And we have an amazing platform for folks to become aware of this issue and how it's it's impacting our children, veterans, and athletes. And we have to make those societal changes that are necessary to make sports safer, to protect our military, but most importantly, to understand now that we can treat these brains. And we don't have to suffer in silence anymore. And if you are suffering, please reach out, talk to somebody. There is help, there is hope, and you can leverage our network for nothing. We'll send you wherever you want. We've got a nationwide network of specialists and treatments out there. You can get the help you need. So till then, till next time, uh Broken Brains, thank you all. Remember, if you've got children or if you've played sports, you only got one melon, so take care of it. May the Lord bless you all, and we'll see you next time on the next episode of Broken Brains. Take care.