Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman
Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman is presented by The Mac Parkman Foundation
The mission of this show and the foundation is To serve as a source of information, resources, and communications to the community of parents, coaches/Athletic trainers, medical staff, and athletes that are affected by sports-related concussions and to raise awareness of the long-term implications of concussive and sub-concussive trauma to our children.
Broken Brains will also explore how Concussive Trauma impacts our Service Members and Veterans.
Join us every week as Bruce interviews leaders and experts in various Medical fields, as well as survivors of Concussive trauma.
Produced by Security Halt Media
Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman
TBI Recovery & HBOT with Green Beret Wren Murray
In this compelling episode of Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman, we’re joined by former U.S. Army Green Beret and co-founder of Revival Hyperbarics, Wren Murray, for a powerful discussion on traumatic brain injury (TBI), PTSD, and the groundbreaking role of hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HBOT) in veteran recovery.
Wren shares his deeply personal experience with repetitive brain trauma from combat and training, and how HBOT changed the trajectory of his life. He unpacks the science behind neuroinflammation, the hurdles of getting alternative treatments recognized in traditional medicine, and the urgent need for policy change to expand access to HBOT for those who need it most—veterans, first responders, and athletes.
If you or someone you love is affected by TBI or PTSD, this episode offers hope, science-backed insights, and a call to rethink how we approach healing from the invisible wounds of war.
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Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman is sponsored by The Mac Parkman Foundation
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Repetitive Brain Trauma
00:22 Understanding the Impact of Head Injuries
00:23 Introduction to Repetitive Brain Trauma
02:55 Wren Murray's Journey and Military Background
06:25 The Impact of Traumatic Brain Injury
10:48 Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy: A New Hope
15:30 The Benefits and Protocols of HBOT
20:11 Understanding PTSD and Neuroinflammation
22:36 Neuroinflammation and Its Impact
23:58 The Role of Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT)
26:12 Challenges in Medical Acceptance of HBOT
28:51 Insurance and Treatment Accessibility
30:21 The Need for Standardized Protocols
33:18 Future Directions and Expansion Plans
https://www.mpfact.com/headsmart-app/
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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wren-murray-941b051a0/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wmurr13/?hl=en
Website: https://www.revivalhyperbarics.com/about
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honoring our veterans through real solutions to brain trauma.
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Saturday, June 28th, 1:30 PM – 9:00 PM EDT
Produced by Security Halt Media
Hey folks, welcome to another episode of Broken Brains and your host, bruce Parkman, sponsored by the Mack Parkman Foundation, the only national voice in the issue of repetitive brain trauma. On this show, we look at the issues of repetitive head impacts from contact sports and repetitive blast exposure for our military veterans and what it's doing to the brains of our kids, athletes and veterans, and how this is responsible for the largest preventable cause of mental illness in this country. And this is critical for you to know, because this condition is not trained in our nursing, psychological or our doctor communities. So everybody that suffers from it millions of Americans are being mistreated, misdiagnosed and they continue to spiral. So you need to know this information. So we bring on leading advocates, researchers and scientists to discuss different modalities, treatments and areas where we can improve brain health, so that you can be informed. Our guest today is another amazing veteran, green Beret. Thank you very much for your service.
Speaker 1:Rand Murray is a former US Army Green Beret and the co-founder and CEO of Revival Hyperbarics, a veteran-owned hyperbaric oxygen therapy HBOT clinic located in South Jordan, utah.
Speaker 1:After sustaining a traumatic brain injury during his deployment to Afghanistan in 2017, mr Murray underwent HBOT treatments in 2019 and 2020, which he credits with significantly aiding his recovery.
Speaker 1:Motivated by this experience, he established Revival Hyperbarics to provide similar healing opportunities to fellow veterans and their families. His dedication to service extends beyond his military career. In 2025, on an interview with the Security Hall podcast, he discussed how HBOT is significantly transforming recovery for veterans dealing with TBI, ptsd, lyme disease, and shared his insights from his personal journey and the mission of Revival Hyperbarics. He's also completed the rigorous SAPR school in memory of his teammate, aaron Butler, who was unfortunately killed in action, despite suffering from a broken back and a TBI at that time, like he ain't got enough to do, he persevered through the training to pay tribute to his friends and through his company, revival Hyperbarics, wren continues to support the veterinary community, offering HBOT treatments aimed at improving the quality of life for those affected by service-related injuries. Wren, welcome to the show, sir, and thank you for dialing in all the way from where the heck is? South Jordan, utah? I don't even know where Utah is for the most part.
Speaker 2:North Nevada, West Colorado, somewhere in that general area.
Speaker 1:Cool beans. Well, welcome to the show man. Tell us a little bit about yourself. I mean, you're a Green Beret, what group were you in and how long did?
Speaker 2:you serve. So I started off as an Intel guy at first, so I was a human guy. Then I was attached to a third group on a deployment side of Gover and go to selection. Go that route. So as charlie kind of what I was in 19th group as a jtech, jtech instructor kind of did that that whole thing okay good on you.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you very much for your service and so obviously it was an injury that got you into um. You know hbot therapy and treatment. Can you tell us about that injury and what happened?
Speaker 2:yeah, so we were on a kind of a clearing operation in 17 for ISIS-K and we were in a building that got hit by a recoilless and turned into a mass cow. So we had a lot of a lot of brain injuries lost. Some dudes got medevaced for kind of the backbreak, the shrapnel, the TBI so kind of beyond. That was kind of like the journey to journey to kind of get back to myself, because you know, refusing to be one of those disgruntled veterans and have that crutch and you know wanted to, you know, be a part of society and not not be, not take a hand out yeah, I mean it's, uh, it says a lot about you, sir, because you know there are a lot of veterans that never stop being a veteran, right and after the military.
Speaker 1:You know there's a lot of things that never stopped being a veteran, right and after the military. You know there's a lot of things that we can do in this world to serve others, to serve and to improve ourselves. Right, I mean it's you know, and so good for you for moving on that journey. How long did it take you to recover? Were you medevaced through a launch stool on the way back to the States?
Speaker 2:We actually that's a whole other story, interesting story. We actually well back to McKenna. We took General Milley's jet back to J-Bad and then we went to McKenna and then we were. They were telling us we were going back in the valley to do that push again. And at this time, you know, dudes are on crutches throwing through through legs, kneecaps blown. You know, dudes are on crutches through and through through legs, kneecaps blown out, dudes with tbi. So we kind of there's a few of us that got to go to germany and then, you know, a lot of us didn't. Okay, some dudes stayed years in walter reed.
Speaker 2:Uh, because of it and that was kind of the inspiration for me to go it was my, my team leader. He uh, fractures pelvis, fractures neck. He couldn't even talk, really talk anymore. He called me speaking full sentences because, you know, at this point trying to trying psychedelics, trying therapy, trying to get back to normal, trying to find that new normal, you know cause, you know it's kind of like you, it's hard to accept a new normal when it's not very fulfilling and this is kind of a bad, a bad head place to be and those kind of that motivation factors like this can't be, this can't be it. And then kind of where I found myself running out of options. You know, I get a call from my team leader and he's speaking full sentences and I'm like what the hell are you doing, dan? He's like to hyperbaric trend. You got to try it. Mission 43 in Idaho and the Green Brown Foundation will pay for you to come up here. I'm like he's like, but you got to dedicate. I'm like at this point, I'm all in.
Speaker 1:So how long was it between the?
Speaker 2:incident and that phone call, that, the. When you got that, you see, um, I mean I tried to be like everybody else and just keep driving on. So I did that for a couple of years, so I didn't get out till 2020. And then, pretty much right when I got out, I got treatment late 2020 and then 2021.
Speaker 1:All right, so you you got injured in 2017. Wow, so you were three years, you know on, you know, I guess reserve, or is the reserve a national guard?
Speaker 2:yeah, I was full time. I think I was full time all but 18 months of the 12 years I was in.
Speaker 1:Okay, so all right all right, so you did. Yeah, I mean, everybody stayed busy. So you're in for 12 years. Man, that's a lot and um and there and that, and so um were you. You know, obviously you tried different modalities. Did any of them help you at all when you were, when you were exploring?
Speaker 2:I mean, in my opinion it was kind of a kind of a band-aid. You know it's kind of like different type of therapies. You know prolonged exposure kind of made it less sensitive. You know I was talking about it. You know, psychedelics kind of seemed like it helped momentarily but it seemed like to fade as quickly as it came and I wasn't really able to retain the lesson, I wasn't really able to gain that insight, and so it was kind of this little holding pattern that like the mindset is kind of with the blast, and where I was at cause we were living in the mountains, kind of clearing and holding and just living up there and that was kind of the lifestyle. And then, uh, the blast happened. It seemed like I was just stuck in that mindset, you know.
Speaker 2:And so the transition was like this you know you're in the stuck in this, like survival mode, like no emotion, you know, like just kind of almost barbaric. You know it's just sounds fun but it's like not when. You know you don't want to be. You're kind of a shell of who you are trying to scream to get out, have feelings and have normal interactions and have relationships. You know, it seems like a lot of dudes we talk to and help with. Here it's relationships crash, you know. Empathy crashes, you know. People become real mechanical, you know they want to be the person they are and sometimes they can. If they know who they are enough, they can pretend for a long time, you know. And then Hyperbarics it was literally like someone had been holding my head underwater and kind of lift my head up and took a deep breath. See, like colors look different, emotions look different, and it was pretty surreal for me.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean and that brings up a good point is that when people start talking about what can we do to heal brains, especially when we're talking about repetitive brain trauma or even just massive blasts like IED right, I mean whether you know the damage occurs from thousands of small hits or one big blast, which I'm sure is not the only big blast. You suffered 12 years in special forces. You know their brains are not all alike. There's not one brain protocol out there that can be prescribed over and over and over again because of the complexity, organ, the different variations of injuring the brain and how we respond to treatment. So for you it sounds like I've been trying psychedelics which have helped, you know, hundreds of thousands of veterans. You know over the years and some of the other stuff. Hbot was your treatment man, so you know that's amazing. So where did you go for? So you got a call from your team leader and where did you end up going for treatment?
Speaker 2:I went to Sun Valley Sun Valley Hyperbarics with Phil Rainey so he helps a lot of dudes up in Idaho so it's a pretty cool place to go. Sun Valley, you can walk to Fly Fish, just shut off social media and take care of yourself. But really, you know it was, it was awesome Cause it was, it was really just what I needed, because I just got out, so I hadn't started working yet. So to go up and just disconnect and just work on myself was like was the perfect, perfect transition. And so the again the psychedelic thing.
Speaker 2:Um, I will say after hyperbarics it was effective. It was almost like I was trying to tune a car with a blown motor. So I think there's, in my opinion, there's an order to all this and I think a lot of people do it backwards. In my opinion, tuning a car with a blown cylinder. But with hyperbarics you can actually build new capillaries, get blood flow back in your brain, get new neuroactivity, make new neural pathways, put your brain in a neuroplastic state. So you're kind of getting a good reset. You're resetting your cortisol or you're resetting a lot of your hormones. It's super good success for people with PTSD and TBI. Then, once you have all the right tools in your pocket, then go. If you need more, then go. Then go. Get that tune done, then go, then go find yourself.
Speaker 1:That's interesting because we we know that we do promote brain supplementation programs. You know, to balance the chemistry, get the brain chemically backwards supposed to be, you know, after it's been impacted by blast, by SSRIs or whatever crazy drugs the VA has given our veterans or or our athletes, man, these kids are getting medicated left and right with life-ending benzos and all kinds of dumb stuff. So, um, but that you know absolutely. You know, for you know, trying to figure out what is the order right, um, we deal with the brain optimization lab, which is big on HBOT and photobiomodulation and vagus nerve stimulation. Talk to us a little bit about that, because that's very interesting, that you would recommend HBOT before everything. And so the benefits, talk about, tell us about some of the benefits of HBOT. And then, and how many? The first time you went through, how many treatments did you have to conduct in order to reach a? You know, a state of, you know improvement.
Speaker 2:So I did two sessions of 40. Wow. So we do it a little different here and we work with America's Mighty Warriors. They're awesome. Debbie Lee it was Mark Lee's mom, the first seal that killed in Iraq. She runs this nonprofit and they're great to work with and they do 40 to up to 60 dives.
Speaker 2:Because basically, with the first 40, I felt a lot of you know, all my migraines were gone, all my light sensitivity was gone, noise sensitivity is gone, my vertigo is gone. I can feel my memory coming back and just remembering random events that I couldn't even come close to processing or reaching for, you know, like interpreters, names or just silly stories. And then so that 40 was over and that was the protocol for a green gray foundation at the time, and then mission 43 paid for me to go back, or vice versa. Mission 43 paid first time and then and I thought that was it the 40, you know I was like, well, I feel a ton better. I'm glad I did it, you know. And then my friend's like you're still an asshole. And then at the same time I had a friend, seth Goggins, at a fifth battalion. He read my testimony in Sun Valley. He said, hey, can you come with me for my 40? And I'm like I mean, you know, austin Green Brave Foundation, see if they'll pay for it, I'll do another 40.
Speaker 2:And so really that was where it was more monumental for me and that's when I realized, you know like these protocols matter. The duration matters. It's because I would drive up in the morning and look at a glean of past. You can kind of see the sawtooth and the sunrise is just, it's amazing, it's super beautiful and but I didn't realize how beautiful it was until one morning I went up there and watched the sunrise. I started bawling and all of a sudden I felt alive and then it was. It was at that moment. It's like colors look different. I could feel again. I had empathy again. It was like the light switch turned on and I'm like, oh and so that was like the huge, huge impact.
Speaker 2:You know, beyond that, it's like kind of, at the first I had I was like shiznickle.
Speaker 2:And then the emotional, you know, and I didn't even notice, I was so worried about the migraines, the emotion being back to myself. It's like kind of the shrapnel I had in my hand and like I couldn't really close my pinky that well, like that went away and I didn't even notice the elbow pain from shrapnel went away. I didn't even notice Cause, like you're, you're kind of you're zoned in on what's really bothering you, it's really dragging you down, so it kind of I didn't realize how much better I was until I finally got my emotions back and the lights turned on and I kind of realized all of everything, all these other things are gone, like having had a migraine, I can go outside without. You know, if you don't go outside with your sunglasses, you're like it's just horrible pain that turns into migraine that you shut down, you know, and then it's. But now I see guys that are doing that and I, you know I'll talk hyperbaric until I blew in the face because, like you see, quality of life it's just shit, you know, but it's so that.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry that first that first 40. How long did that take you to get through it?
Speaker 2:So he runs a pretty hard protocol. I ended up doing the same here. We do twice a day, six days a week, so we can burn through Within a month. We could burn through, but America's Mighty Warriors are awesome in the fact that they'll do up to 60. Because the reason I think I may not have needed as many the second time?
Speaker 2:Because once you get to 20 dives and Dr Frani's kind of studied this over and over again, the Israelis are really light years ahead of us on this that at 20 hours of consecutive diving your stem cells 34 and 42, go to 800% and you start because you can proliferate, multiply and your own stem cells. So you're kind of creating an environment where this can happen and kind of the act of going down in pressure and coming up out of pressure, you're also promoting a hypoxic induced factor and kind of what that means is if you, if you got a crush wound on your arm and your body can identify it, it's going to try to rebuild capillaries and rebuild the nerve so you don't lose it. But going down in pressure with pure oxygen and that's so much saturation. Coming back out of pressure your body thinks it's suffocating and it'll have a induced, that hypoxic induced factor and so we do air brakes at the bottom to do that again and the significance of that. With the brain injuries you can actually rebuild capillaries and bypass the areas that don't have blood and you can see it on a nuclear spec scan. After 40 dives you can see blood flow increasing and it's a permanent increase. Today you create new capillaries, so it's not a subscription. You're fundamentally improving, fundamentally changing, and that's why, in my opinion, with dudes with TBI or PTSD, it's really a matter of time until their brain's turned back on.
Speaker 2:You know, if it's not going fast enough, I'll look at their glutathione levels, look at their methylation. You need to make sure they have the proper amount of antioxidants because there's a lot of things that can kind of prohibit their own health. Um, with simple fixes like folate or b12, b6 along the way, and uh. Another interesting example is I was treating a five-year-old kidney failure and uh, she wouldn't change or like go to the bathroom by herself and 15 dives in that went away. Then I wrote a white paper. Hopefully get into SOCOM and try to. You know, I went to Softweek. I'm banging on as many doors as I can. It seems like you know. You look I was there, man, what a zoo.
Speaker 1:It was wild. Yeah, that was my 15th one dude. I've been in that thing. I've been. I'm the chairman of the foundation that runs that puppy dude. It's what they've done with is amazing man. So did you go to? Are you going? Did you go to the soft med course? I think that they're still doing the soft medics thing. They have some kind of medic conference the week after soft week. Did they have that this year?
Speaker 2:They told me that I talked to some start major and come in contact with kind of like a weekly it's like a week every Wednesday they talk, and there it's like a week every Wednesday they talk. So I'll make my way back out to Florida, but anybody I can get to listen because it's Send me your stuff, man.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm on General Fenton's brain team, man, I'm on his, you know he invites me in. Well, he's invited me in once. And after I started selling our Army-Navy game, I never, you know, he's like Parkman and I've known him a long time. But, um, I can you know, send it to me. I know his command psychologist. I can help you disseminate that. Yeah, I mean, it's um, cause we have a study going on here in Florida right now. Have you heard about the study with Joe Duterte? I think it's uh, they're treating like 200. It's a full, it's a full gold standard longitudinal study. Yeah, you know, and he's got you know his protocols. I don't think right now, I don't think the protocols matter right now, anything other than getting people to recognize that.
Speaker 1:All right, let me just ask you a simple question. I ask everybody with a modality this question what's the percentage of people that you treat that have a positive experience with the modality that you have, which is HBOP, 100%, all right? See, this is what I keep going back to Congress with. It's like look, man, you've got. You know, we've been doing this wrong for 20 something years with drugs and therapy when we have brain damage and until we change it. You know we don't have to wait for FDA approval for all these modalities, and we have 80,. You know we don't have to wait for FDA approval for all these modalities and we have 80, 90, a hundred percent of people coming out of this thing going.
Speaker 1:This helped me, save my life, maybe a better person, whatever their issue is Right. You know you. You, you didn't commit a crime. You sign your line Like I did. You know you did your time. You got out, you got hurt. We should be taking care of you. It's that simple, right? But we've still got a way to get, because even if we do get FDA approved, we've still got to get the medical community accepted the insurance coverage, right, that's the big thing. And then scale these things right. I've talked to the jury about this a lot, but I can help you down here at SoCal. Not a problem, no promises, but I can try. So what's your white paper about, man? Talk to me about that. What are you pushing, man? What are you pushing?
Speaker 2:So kind of it's kind of multifaceted about kind of what I think PTSD is and kind of relating to that five-year-old. You know, like she did 15 dives and all of a sudden that PTSD was gone. She wasn't afraid to change and she wasn't afraid. So you know, we all think about PTSD in a way of. You know we internalize ourselves in a way that's our own detriment and then I argue a bit that I think it's neuroinflammation that's affecting our hypothalamus, because the five-year-old is not aware of it themselves. But all of a sudden, 15 dives they show up, run around talking to strangers and like tells her mom she's going to go change herself, so you're going to go to the bathroom by herself, so you go to therapy, she's, she's just doing dive in between dialysis, like that was a big eye opener.
Speaker 2:Or like a woman got her child left in a hot car it's in three dives, her stutter's gone. Brain fog car it's in three dives. Or stutters gone, brain fog's gone. You just said I think there's. I think there's a lot of this PTSD that's kind of there's a neuroinflammation, there's a physical piece in, also a mobile, the mobile side of it as well. It's like if we can get to dudes when they get hurt, then then it won't be this 40 dive protocol, it won't be the 60 dive protocol. You know, I helped my, my wife's sister, got a car wreck and then a day or two later she had a stutter. That was just like my team leaders. So I flew to Arizona I know Dr Borsan out there Then dive number seven, stutter gone, and so you bring up some really good points, because I don't want to talk about post-traumatic stress.
Speaker 1:I want to talk about post-traumatic growth and literally when people start thinking, you know every time there's stuff like what you went through was not post-traumatic stress, that was not PTSD. You have been through post-traumatic growth, which has taken, you know, a tragedy. It was taking that stress and turning it into something positive instead of relying on victimology or crutch. Or you talk about those veterans that are out there and they'll tell you I got PTSD forever. It's like, well, you don't right, you got a condition that can be relieved but you got to take some steps. But neuroinflammation especially with repetitive blast exposure, repetitive head impacts we now know that neuroinflammation is the largest problem that we have in the brain. For our audience, can you explain a little bit about what neuroinflammation is, how does it impact brain health? And then, how does HPOT make it better?
Speaker 2:So with neuroinflammation.
Speaker 2:It's kind of I know the audience probably read a lot of your body keeps the score and so your nerves can store information and that information can create inflammation.
Speaker 2:And then so that inflammation, if it's great enough, can pass your blood-brain barrier and for all purposes it looks like affecting your hypothalamus, your hippocampus, and then promoting neurodegeneration.
Speaker 2:And then so you know like, for an easy example of body keeping a score would be like you shot in the elbow and you bump your elbow at the grocery store but you go home and you have sweating with anxiety. It doesn't mean you're thinking about it, it doesn't mean you're actively participating in it, but your body will remember. So you have kind of this inflammation of your nervous system that really can start attacking your own brain, and so you have somatic events that keep compounding. So you get more and more cortisol, you get more and more inflammation and eventually, if it starts passing your blood brain barrier, now, now you're creating exponentially larger problems for yourself, and you can see it in people's speech lack of word, recall, brain fog, sleep, cortisol, hormones, you know so it's, and it's like you know, and the bandaid is throw a bunch of prescriptions, like you're saying, but I haven't treated a veteran, yet that hasn't got off. Every single prescription within 10 dives with no withdrawal.
Speaker 1:That's like SSRIs, benzos, like all these crazy drugs they give you get. You've been able to get them off that. That's amazing, because the additional part I was hoping you'd touch upon is that we know from repetitive blast exposure, from TBI inside the brain, because of the damage done to the brain, there is this chronic state of neuroinflammation. You know you were a Green Beret. You know you probably shot a crap load of AT4s, you've been around breaching charges, you've shot a lot of 50 cal, whatever, and then you've been in combat where there is no control over the repetitive blast exposure. You have right and we know that now shooting me. You know heavy caliber rifles, whether it's a 50 cal or a sniper rifle or you know whatever. All this is additional. You know damage done to the brain, all the blast exposure, all that and that neuroinflammation because of your lifestyle. It doesn't end and that eats into the brain, it degrades the myelin, it causes all kinds of problems. It'd be interesting to see one day what we can do to validate how HBOT addresses that, because from an RBE and RBHI perspective, it could be very, very powerful. And I still think to your point that it does. It has to be doing something positive because of if you have a TBI, you have neuroinflammation for a long time, man, and you got to close, you know, basically a closed wound. We can't see in there. We can't see what's going on, you know. So for HBOT, I think it is promising.
Speaker 1:Why is there so much pushback from the medical community on something that has such a high rate of positive influence on anybody? I know Everybody I know has touched. I can't wait to get in one of these chambers. I just don't have the time right now to take 40 dives. But you know, why is there such pushback to HBOT? You know, I just don't understand it. When I started, I was on, I was a plank member of the Green Beret Foundation. You know I stroked a big check to help them get going, you know, and then some of the initial requests that we got and approved were HBOT back in 09 and 010. And here we are, 15 years later and crickets right, no, there's no, I mean. Well, I mean I know there's a. It's not being condones prescribed covered. You know, you're talking about all these foundations. What's the big issue, man? What's the problem?
Speaker 2:I mean, I think a lot of these nonprofits, like the Green Beret Foundation particularly. You know they paid for us all to go and I talked to them when I was in SoCal. I'm like, hey, like all of us feel so much better. But I have testimonies. But even contacting you guys, I like to give them to you, to my friends too, because like and so from the Green Beret's perspective, foundation's perspective, I can see why the program will get cut. But really, you know, like I have on my computer testimonies for life-changing experience and like, really they're the ones that helped me do this. But you know, why would people fund it if they don't understand it? You know, but there's no follow-up. It's kind of a good idea. But for the medical community, you know, it's hard, not to say that people, it's easier. So every hospital has hyperbaric chambers. So I've treated people with carbon dioxide poisoning, death covered.
Speaker 1:Say that again because that's a fact I didn't know. So every hospital has a hyperbaric chamber in it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if not every every other, because there's some things you have to use a hyper chamber for. Like what? Carbon dioxide poisoning, uh, crush wounds, burns covering more than 50% of your body. Certain infections, gangrene Wow, they do a Marx protocol for people prone to infection in their teeth. They don't think antibiotics will help.
Speaker 1:Let's see I got a list here. I mean that's cool. I had no idea that there were, that I didn't know that was there. Was that many available, right? I'm thinking you know there's like one or two in a state or something like that, right you know? So that's different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that even like sudden hearing loss. We've treated a bunch of that recently, you know. So it's. That's the strangest thing to me. You know, even the ent's best guess is some weird virus, something. And then the crazy part is, if I can get you within 30 days, you have a pretty high success rate. I think it's like 85% After 30 days. Your success rate goes to 10 to 20%. But you also have to go through their steroid protocols for cortisol. You have to go through their, their steroid protocols for cortisol. You have to go through the testing, but usually by the time they get to me you've already reached outside that window.
Speaker 2:I luckily encourage people just to go out of pocket. We try to backdate if we need to, and try to work with insurance because because I've seen it firsthand not work, you know 45, 60 days later because you're going through the process and then. So they think there's a huge it's, it's. It's really interesting and uh, it's interesting the process and the way that they decide to do any of this. And what TBI and PTSD?
Speaker 2:For me it's interesting because you know we show them a nuclear spec scan that shows blood flow and they'll they'll say, well, there's blood flow, but it doesn't mean you're better. You show them neural activity, they'll see neural activity and they're like but that doesn't mean you're better, and so it's this back and forth game. But then if you look at antidepressants, then you'd be playing the same game. How do you know it worked? Well, you'd have to draw on your brain. And so how does that get approved? And that would be the question of the day. That stumps me. If you can prescribe something, you can't see work on e-test, but an opinion. But we can't do it with hyperbarics. I think the problem too is, if I treat you, I don't want to see you again, unless it's come to say hi. So I want it to be a one done thing.
Speaker 1:I don't want a monthly Yeahring revenue, bro, that's big to them. Farmer ding-dongs man. Yeah, I was just talking to a girl on the podcast today who's got an amazing ketamine protocol and the medical community is pushing back because they want to see you forever, dude. They don't want to cure you, they don't want you to go away and not come back, which is a huge problem with our for-profit medical community, and it bothers the hell out of me, especially when it comes down to this. So you are getting insurance coverage right now for the folks that are using your protocols.
Speaker 2:Yes, there's 14 preexisting conditions that you can use insurance for.
Speaker 1:but if you venture outside of that, then no way so you just got to make sure you somehow fall in the bucket.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and usually by the time they get to there they've already got diagnosed, because usually it's chemo, a lot of it's chemo damage. Let's say, most insurance work is damage to the hospitals due to chemo.
Speaker 1:Really, Wow, yeah, wow, I'd say. Most insurance work is damage to the hospitals due to chemo. Really Wow, I got a wife that might be able to use this. So what about TBI? Is it approved for TBI and concussions? Nope.
Speaker 2:And that's the argument of the antidepressants. They use the argument of people that brought up TBI and PTSD's like well, we see blood flow, we see neural activity, but how do we know they're better?
Speaker 1:well, you also got a patient that's saying this help me, so that's the same opinion you're going to rely on with the drugs, right? Oh, you make me feel better.
Speaker 2:I can't feel my toes, but I feel better you know, and that's the exact thing, that's the baffling thing, that's the and that's the exact thing. That that's, that's the baffling thing. That's. That's the battle. That's the battle we'll fight. You know, the bigger I can get, the more I'll fight that battle. Yeah, so that's, that's my goal, because it's it really is. It's terrible that there's dudes out there suffering like that and and they got to go to look. I got to find them, the non-profits got to find them. It's all these backdoor deals to try to figure out, get them help. You know, so like that, because I was doing contract work with the DEA, doing some executive consulting after you know, after I did HBOT, but honestly, I felt so guilty for feeling good, you know, drove me over here to do this, but it shouldn't have. I'm happy it's me, you know. But it shouldn't have to be me, you. It shouldn't have.
Speaker 1:I'm happy it's me you know, but it shouldn't have to be me. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, I mean I, I got you man, there's um, there's just so much that we, we, we, we can and we can't do, but the fact that you know, you got, you got a, you know you got a company, now you're reaching out and you're helping people, and you're right. Finding them is, you know, the hardest, the hardest piece. How do you find? Right now?
Speaker 2:Oh, man, how do people find you? I went to I've been to Black War alumni that talked to all the battalion commanders. Anybody to listen or anybody in the area that'll come? I'll invite them over here, I'll go to them, or you know. So it's kind of, even if it's not me, it's kind of. I think the awareness needs to be known. So the 19th group, you know I have had certain need to come over. I have flyers. I'll go to any event anywhere happening and just to let them know this. Like, hey, there's funding, we can help you.
Speaker 2:Don't save for the next team, don't save for the next guy, cause that's what everybody's going to say. Well, there's always someone worse. It's like there's always someone worse. But like, if I'll get more chambers, I'll get more employees. If that comes down to me not being able to handle it, so don't save it for the next guy. If you're struggling. You know what I mean. How many chambers you got? We have two, but I can put in four, okay, so we put six vets roughly per month. Six, seven vets for all, 60 dives in a month, okay, and your protocols.
Speaker 1:are they standardized for the industry or they are your protocols? Because I know you mentioned going up and going down. I've been to the Aviv Clinic over here in the middle of the state. They do that. They go up and down and they say you know, they said they're there, they've got the best, they're Israeli, they got the best protocols. Joe Duterte does something a little bit different. I don't know they. There's a lot of you know, I can't stand it when people in the same industry just can't get along and just work together. But I guess it's a. There's a lot of ego and everything. I don't have an ego anymore so I really don't care, but it pisses me off. So, like, what do you? What do you got? What are?
Speaker 2:you doing, man, and how did you get your protocols established? So when I was at Sun Valley, philip, there's a mad scientist and he's been doing for a long time, so just me getting treated, I'd always be picking his brain because he seems like he always had the why for everything. Okay, so you get to two atmospheres, your spinal fluid starts moving. You get down to two and a half atmospheres, you're affecting muscle skeletal, you know. So it's an alternation between a light and a deeper dive. Deeper dives, where I'm out, do it in the evening. So for me it's two dives. You know we do two dives a day, five, six days a week, and that's. We run a pretty hard protocol for the bets that come true.
Speaker 2:But the reason that I believe that's the way to do it is because when I was in Sun Valley, I saw a vet who did one a day, four or five days a week, and I saw the same vet a vet who was in the same incident, he was in the same squad do twice a day, six days a week, and the one that did once a day was like yeah, I think I, I feel better. And then, when I did twice a day, six days a week was like how do I donate, how do I get into this, how do I help? And so for me, the stark difference was like, well, someone's not going to be consistent, then I don't want to take their money or even start a program. It's like, hey, find a point in your life that it matters to you to make a change. Like don't drag us on when you have free time, cause you're just wasting all of our time, you know?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, hey, and for those people that might be asking, you know, um, you know there's a lot of ways to rent HBOT chambers. You know you get the soft side chambers, stuff like that and they, I mean, you could buy your own if you got that kind of coin. What are your guidelines on that? You know for people that you know, like my son-in-law had a brain tumor so we got him an H-Bot chamber at home and kind of got him in that for quite a while, you know, just to help him. You know, with healing, what's your, what's your recommendations? When is it good, not good?
Speaker 2:with mild and regular hyperbarics.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like, if you need that vascular growth, if you need that neural growth, if you want that stem cell growth, if you need big change, I think the deeper chamber is the way to go.
Speaker 2:Obviously it's time, it's money, it's all the things I think mild hyperbarics does really well with inflammation management, recovery. So for athlete recovery, maybe, if something's going on in your body you need to help recovery, help manage inflammation. I think that, with consistency, is a good tool. So it kind of depends on, like in my opinion, like with a tumor, you kind of want the angiogenesis in conjunction with the T cell production to try to get more oxygen to get in there to fight it, versus because tumors are inherently hypoxic so they can't really your body has a hard time fighting it, so there's not a lot of blood flow in there, it just kind of leeches what it needs, and so for that I would say it'd be beneficial maybe to do some harder dives and really take some other compounds that people may find scary to also boost your T cells to help fight that.
Speaker 1:Cool, good enough. So you got a clinic right now as we close out, because we got to get ready for another show. So what do you? How do people find you right? What are you up to next? All right, so tell, this is this is your five. 10 minutes. Takes much time. Thump your chest. Tell us. What is Ren Murray up to man? What are you doing? What's your next steps? Where do you see this going? What do you want to achieve? And then, how do people find you?
Speaker 2:Oh, man so I think, expansion here I think we have the potential to expand in Utah more handle, more capacity, kind of working in the angle of doing more blood work making kind of working in the angle of doing more blood work, making kind of a more standardized procedure, a predictive analysis of what procedures are working and what aren't working and also, depending on people's nutrition and blood, what's going on in their body, just to try to be as effective as possible. I think that'll be. That's exciting, exciting for me, kind of nerdy, but you know, other than that, have a nine-month-old. That's exciting. That's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:No contact sports man. I'm telling you you don't want to be in my camper.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'll contest to that one for her. Good thing it's female, so hopefully she won't play in football.
Speaker 1:No head in soccer balls is just as bad right now, man. I wrote the book on this thing. Man, I'll get you one, man, don't worry about it. Man. So I love new dads, man, it was the best title. Still got two beautiful girls, man. So you know it's a. Yeah, that's good. So you got a nine-year-old. And then, um, what are you trying to do with legislation? Or, uh, you know your white paper stuff, where you want to go with that?
Speaker 2:So with the, with the white paper, well, there's some broad service announcements out with SOCOM right now for TBI, ptsd research and it's. It's really. It's like if I can get the awareness, like the contract's great, whatever. You know what I mean. It's it's If I really just wanted to make money, I'd just do insurance. But if I can give quality results that people can just look at and try to realize like okay, shit, we can do something about helping our own guys out. You know it's not. I just think there's not enough awareness. You know it's like a lot of times you talk about HBot and it looks like people look at you like you're wearing a wig made of dildos.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. Yeah, or some doctor says, ah, this shit don't work, right, I mean cause they're, they're asking around and people do not know that. You know the hundreds of people you've treated. You know the a lot of people I mean they, they, they got $26 million to fund this study here in Florida and you know, and the hope was that by establishing this longitudinal study now we can go to FDA. You know we go to VA, tricare and get these guys help. And then you know, but, yeah, but we got to have protocols and I'd like to know more about you know about that.
Speaker 1:And we are having a summit, the only international summit on repetitive brain trauma here in Tampa. So right up the street, as a matter of fact, it's one half mile from MacDill Gate. So if you want to come on out, we'll send you an invitation coming out. Maybe there's a spot for you on a panel to talk about hyperbarics. Joe Duterte will be there and we can just have a discussion on hyperbarics and why we need to move forward with this and how do we scale it right? I mean, because that's the big issue, man, once this becomes a standard of care, we're gonna put all these h-bot machines right, and how we're gonna schedule. And I, you know, I know there's some for-profit. You know, people I've talked about that want to, you know, build like the cryo industry right, all these little mom and pop shops, you know, and stuff, dude, that's, that's amazing. But what do you want to do with that?
Speaker 2:um, I mean, even if it's, even if it's like getting into the thorpe program, there's already dive teams. It would be easy to certify. You know, like you know, let everybody handle their own. Or you know like I have a, I have a. I have a little line in the white paper on mobile, so kind of like, if people are hurting somewhere, coming to them to get treatment, making it easily accessible wherever they're at, wherever the injury, they have a bad jump, they have a bad dive, they have bad whatever.
Speaker 2:And it's like we can prevent this damage instead of having, you know, having to deal with the TBI, having to deal with their divorce, having to deal with you know, all that. You know because all of a sudden you know, hey, that guy got a brain injury and now he's an asshole and now he has no emotions Like, well, you know, in my opinion, we could, we can prevent that and we could take a little bit of active measures If, if we know that this is what it does and this is dudes are killing themselves and dudes are losing their lives for this, it's like for a couple of days of their time to prevent their brain from swelling. Because you look at neuroinflammation. What's inflammation, it's a lack of blood flow. Lack of blood flow is lack of oxygen, Yep.
Speaker 1:So two things the brain needs, man. Two out of three supplementation man Gotta get some food, you know. But yeah, you're all over the space, man, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:But I'd love to come out and chat. I'm really down to talk to whoever will listen to me rant about this stuff.
Speaker 1:We got some legislation in Congress right now that's going to, you know, authorize coverage for HBOT, along with psychedelics, brain supplementation and all this stuff. So I'll fill you in on that.
Speaker 2:And I'd love to explain to people the order, because I'm a firm believer.
Speaker 1:I'm looking for orders because we get people calling up and we're making recommendations. But you know we're just a service. Our job is to get the information out there. We need you to talk to the specialist, so we'll have them call you. Man, I'm all about it, We'll put you on a speed dial, Don't worry about it. Awesome, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. All right, Ren. Thank you so much, man. Thank you for your service, not only to this country but to our service members and to all, and with your modality, Keep it on it. I love seeing Green Berets succeed. Nothing makes me more proud to see you know other Green Berets moving out man and selfless service to others is just a passion and moving on from just being a veteran to a veteran with a mission. Good for you, man. God bless you and keep on going. All right, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me my pleasure. Man, folks, folks, another great episode of broken brains. Remember, go to the website, get your free book, download it. Find ren murray's organization. Do you have a website, by the way?
Speaker 2:yep, reberkscom, you'll have my. You have a number on there. People can reach out to me, we can get. I can get someone set up for 40 60 dives in a week or two beat that chest man revival hyper barrackscom.
Speaker 1:Go there, learn about this stuff, man, because it could apply to you or somebody you love. So, signing off, remember our summit on repetitive brain health September 3rd and 4th at the Special Forces Teamhouse right outside MacDill. Go to the app. Download our app, the SmartHead app or HeadSmart app. Learn about brain, repetitive brain trauma. Take care of your children, become informed. Like us, share us, subscribe to us. We really appreciate that.
Speaker 1:Pushing it out because it's our job as the only voice of repetitive brain trauma from the Mack Parkman Foundation, to make sure people are aware so they can heal, they can come back to themselves, come to their families and they can take care of themselves and stay on this planet if they're hurting to that point. And please give us a call if you're in that condition, because we have an entire network of people like Wren that we can move you to to get the help you need. You are not alone. So, to all of you, thank you very much. Take care of those brains. You only got one of them and it's all you are, and we'll talk to you later on another episode of Broken Branch. Take care, bye-bye you.