Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman
Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman is presented by The Mac Parkman Foundation
The mission of this show and the foundation is To serve as a source of information, resources, and communications to the community of parents, coaches/Athletic trainers, medical staff, and athletes that are affected by sports-related concussions and to raise awareness of the long-term implications of concussive and sub-concussive trauma to our children.
Broken Brains will also explore how Concussive Trauma impacts our Service Members and Veterans.
Join us every week as Bruce interviews leaders and experts in various Medical fields, as well as survivors of Concussive trauma.
Produced by Security Halt Media
Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman
Brandt McCartney on CTE, The 38 Challenge, and Healing from Invisible Injuries
In this emotional and eye-opening episode of Broken Brains, host Bruce Parkman is joined by Brandt McCartney—founder of The 38 Challenge—for an in-depth conversation about the devastating effects of repetitive brain trauma, Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE), and the mental health crisis among athletes and veterans.
Brandt shares the deeply personal story of his brother, Navy football player and Marine Captain Matthew Brewer, whose tragic passing inspired The 38 Challenge. Together, Bruce and Brandt unpack the link between repeated head impacts, emotional volatility, and CTE, while challenging the silence around mental health struggles.
This episode highlights the critical need for alternative treatment solutions, early intervention, and cultural change in how we view invisible injuries. From actionable solutions to hope-filled recovery stories, this conversation is a call to action for those suffering in silence—and those who support them.
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Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman is sponsored by The Mac Parkman Foundation
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Repetitive Brain Trauma
02:45 The 38 Challenge: Honoring a Legacy
06:07 Matt's Life and Impact
12:02 Cautionary Tales of Brain Trauma
16:06 The Genesis of the 38 Challenge
20:10 Conversations on Mental Health and CTE
29:13 The Struggles of Athletes with CTE
31:01 Transitioning from Awareness to Action
32:30 Providing Hope and Solutions
33:38 Exploring Alternative Treatments
37:19 The Importance of Patient Feedback
40:02 Cultural Shifts in Health Awareness
44:20 Investing in Brain Health for Future Success
48:55 Stories of Hope and Recovery
https://www.mpfact.com/headsmart-app/
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LinkedIn: Brandt McCartney
Instagram: brandtmccartney
Website: the38challenge.com
Produced by Security Halt Media
Hey folks, welcome to another edition of Broken Brains with your host, bruce Parkman, sponsored by the amazing Mack Parkman Foundation, where we look at the issue of repetitive brain trauma from repetitive head impacts from contact sports to repetitive blast exposure in our veterans community and what these conditions are doing to the brains of our kids, our athletes and our veterans and the, the which is causing the largest preventable cause of mental illness in this country, and why? Why is this important? Because you don't know about it, it's not trained in our nursing, medical and psychological communities. This is an emerging phenomena that's affecting millions of Americans and we reach out to patients and advocates and researchers and players and all kinds of folks to give you that 360-degree perspective on this issue so that you can make informed decisions about yourselves, your children and those that you love.
Speaker 1:On our show today, another amazing guest, mr Brant McCarthy. Not to be confused with Paul McCarthy, he's almost as famous. He's one of the most well-connected young men I ever met. This amazing young man has been through the entire ringer from you know the loss of his brother to suicide, related to both repetitive head impacts and repetitive blast exposure, his own challenges and mental health struggling, and he's very, very open about it. Some of the modalities have, and he's turned this into a mission to help others, and he works with athletes, veterans, parents. He's got an amazing foundation, the 38 Challenge, which we're going to talk about in depth, and he's also the founder of the Brain Optimization Lab and the co-founder with Jordan Reed, an NFL player. This young man has done an amazing job. He's young, but he's driven, he's energetic and he understands what this issue is all about, and we couldn't be happier to have him on the show today. Brant, how you doing, man.
Speaker 2:Doing well. Brother, it's a pleasure to be here and love the mission, love the podcast and looking forward to jumping into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man. So tell our audience. Tell us a little bit about yourself, man. How did you get here, man? So tell our audience, man, Tell us a little bit about yourself, man. How did you get here, man?
Speaker 2:For sure, yeah, so you summarized it a little bit, but, yeah, four years ago unfortunately lost my brother, united States Marine Corps Captain Matthew Brewer and former Navy linebacker number 38, to suicide. That's why I've got 38 everywhere. Um, and so when we lost matt, you know just as you, with mac, were rudely introduced to the world of, of brain injuries, mental illness, um, and what that can do to someone. I started the, the, the non-profit, the 38 challenge. So matt and I love doing uh intense exercise together, right, he would uh wake me up early in the morning. I'd be like, dude, what the hell Like, let me go back to bed. And he'd say, no, get out, come on, let's go out, let's go work out.
Speaker 2:So, to honor Matt, I created a warrior workout, right, kind of similar to the Murph challenge 38 challenge. So what is the 38 challenge? 38 challenge is a 38 minute AMRAP, as many rounds as possible of a 400 meter run, 38 sit-ups, 38 push-ups, 38 squats. You do as many rounds as you can in 38 minutes. However, the beautiful thing about suffering and what I wanted the workout to mean is really the purpose behind it, and that is to voluntarily place yourself in an uncomfortable situation and to lean on others while suffering, right, because that's what we have to do to challenge the mental health stigma. So you know, we've had at our events, our workout events our next one's coming up May 6 during soft week but we've had toddlers crawling for 38 minutes, geriatric population, you know, walking upstairs to. You know, professional athletes knocking out 12 rounds. Adaptive athletes customize the workout for them. So so long as you're using 38 as a variable to suffer, then you're doing the 38 challenge correctly.
Speaker 2:So originally, when I started the 38 challenge, we partnered with the Concussion. Legacy Foundation is doing great work and all the money went towards supporting post-mortem brains and warfighters and athletes right, so we can understand what's going on in the brain, things like CTE, astrogliosis, that kind of stuff Again, amazing and very, very necessary work. I got the personal conviction that I wanted to shift our focus towards providing solutions to help people now rather than research people's brains when they're gone, right, again, I think, both equally as important, um, so then I created the brain optimization lab uh, again in partnership with Jordan Reed, and um really were a Trojan horse as a human performance company, um, and our value proposition is that, as you know very well, bruce, being a high performer comes with its own unique challenges, especially when you deal with brain injuries and trauma. So, as a Green Beret yourself, you have both of those things, both in service and out of service. Obviously, both in service and out of service, obviously.
Speaker 2:And so what really we're trying to do is, let's say you have a multimillion dollar operator, or if you're Jordan Reed and you're a $30 million athlete, but you're dealing with depression, anxiety, you're not sleeping, you have troubles outside the house due to your brain injuries and due to the stress of the occupation, then how can we expect that multimillion dollar asset to perform at its highest potential when you're dealing with things like depression, anxiety? Right, you and I both know that. You saw me when I was at my worst way, different than you see now, right? And so you cannot expect high-performing people to achieve greatness if they're dealing with the consequences that come with being a high performer. So that's, that's really what, what, what wrapped man? Obviously, bruce, you've been um with this mission since since day one and um, yeah, it's been a, it's a um, it's a blessing and a curse.
Speaker 1:Blessing and curse and so having you. But hey, let's, let's honor your brother a little bit. Tell us about matt man. Tell what was he like man? Because he sounded like. I mean every time you tell stories, man, I know he uh, he sounded like, just you know he was a beast man, I mean uh he was a beast.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I got matt's dog tags tattooed on my back attached to a crown of thorns next to a cross when he was alive. Um, so you know he, he pretty much raised me. Um, you know he, he, I remember I was. He was 10 years older than I, was Right, so he was the stud middle linebacker running back on the football team. So I'd see these girls out by the pool with belly button rings when I was like six years old and, um, I grew up. I grew up really fast.
Speaker 2:Um, I'll tell you a funny story about Matt. So, um, uh, a couple, a couple of funny stories when I was younger, right, like I was, um, I wanted to be cool, right, and so, um, and Matt would always let me hang around his friends and um, which is, you know, obviously looking back at it, like that was a cool thing for him to do, cause I was probably annoying, very annoying, but, um, he, uh, they would, uh, they would always party in our basement. Obviously he didn't want my mom to find out. I remember there was one time there was a Jack Daniels that was hanging out under my brother. I was like six or seven. There was a Jack Daniels peeking out under my brother's bed. My mom and I went downstairs to go clean up or whatever, or just check out the basement. I saw this Jack Daniels hanging out of the bed. As a six-year-old I knew what it was and I knew that my brother shouldn't have been doing that. I was like mom, what's that? What's that? And so and I kicked the jack daniels underneath the underneath the bed so she wouldn't see it.
Speaker 2:Um, and just like so many stories like that man of me being a young just growing up fast around my brother trying to save his ass, and then he went into the Naval Academy and then again he grew up very fast, obviously as the Academy does, and it matures you and turns you into a leader. But yeah, I mean Matt. You know he was those who knew him. He was very soft-spoken, a man of few words, but when he spoke it was with everyone would stop and listen. You know there was a letter that one of Matt's commanders wrote to him when he was in the Marine Corps. I wrote to my mom after Matt passed and they just described Matt. They said the first time that we shook his hand he just had this fit factor, right, I mean, he was a 230-pound guy, rips, you know, eight-pack abs and, again, well-spoken, very humble.
Speaker 2:And yeah, there's another story I just heard a couple of weeks ago where Matt was the captain of this platoon right in the Marine Corps and they were doing an exercise during training and, um, they were climbing up this, this mountain, right, a really tall, um, a tall mountain.
Speaker 2:They all, they all had a bunch of rucks on um, and there's this guy who's at the the this is coming from the perspective the guy who told me this story. But this guy was at the very end of the pack with this rock and was like barely making it and he was holding up the rest of the group and he was struggling and was probably going to tap out. And Matt was at the top of the pack, obviously leading. Everyone went to the back, took this guy's, as he already had his own rock, took this guy's rock, carried it like a freaking duffel bag up the rest of the mountain so this guy could make it up with the rest of the people. Matt had his rock and then carried this other guy's rock like a duffel bag, um, and yeah, just stories, like just so many stories like that man, of just him being incredibly um tough, resilient, and he led with his actions more than his words, every single time well, bro, you're making him proud and your dedication to him and his life you, you know is his stories.
Speaker 1:Keeping his legacy going is very admirable because you know, in our space, where we've lost loved ones and it can be any loved one, right, your loss is no greater or less than mine, right, and we owe it to them. But very, very few of us can get up the next day and keep going, and that's what our small community needs is more people like you that gets up and says enough is enough. I'm not going to cry, I'm not going to mourn anymore, I'm going to do. And action in our space is lacking, whether it's legislation, whether it's public policy, whether it's informed parents. I mean, it's nobody's doing anything. And that's why you know, what you're doing right now is absolutely amazing.
Speaker 1:And as a caution to all of our parents and all of our listeners out there, you know, tell us about, you know Matt did, about everything wrong you could do when it comes to some concussive trauma, man, I mean, the guy was just like you know, mac played back to back sports and snowboarded. Tell us a little bit as a cautionary tale right Towards our audience, so they understand. You know, it wasn't just being in the Marine Corps or playing football. That was, you know, the cause of Matt's problems.
Speaker 2:For sure. Yeah, I mean it was. Yeah, it was multifaceted. I think his favorite thing to do is get hit in the head.
Speaker 1:Sounds like the hockey guy we interviewed yesterday. I just like to fight, you know, yeah.
Speaker 2:Another Matt story. He first started playing baseball. So Joe Buck was this Joe Buck sorry, jack Buck the father of Joe Buck, the Monday Night Football guy. He was a famous announcer in St Louis. And Jack Buck after my brother's a half sibling. After his father passed away, my brother's father, jack Buck, kind of took Matt under his wing and he was like a grandfather. He was like a grandfather to Matt.
Speaker 2:So Matt was around baseball growing up and so they put Matt in baseball and he was so bad From what I hear he was horrible so he didn't have a hit all season, not one hit all season. And it was like the last game of the season like every all the parents were like like, just like she, like hoping that Matt would just at least like get a foul ball or something. Like he was brutal. Last game of the season he struck out again, went hitless the whole season and then like parents were crying dude, like it was like devastating. Next year Matt found out about wrestling, got into wrestling and just dominated wrestling. He was probably I think you know again like eight years old and he found his thing Right. And then after that he got into football and again just dominated in football. So Matt started playing football when he was around um nine years old, 10 years old, um. But and then fast forward to, you know, uh, high school. Matt is a, uh, all state wrestler, he's all state linebacker and all state running back Um taking. I mean, the game plan was give Matt the ball and Matt stopped the other team right, like he was the whole. That was pretty much. That was pretty much the game plan. So, um, and you know we've talked to, there's a talk to, you know, one of Matt's old coach who was also my coach at um at the time, and he expressed to me he goes, man, I feel guilty, like we gave the ball some times, like dude, he didn't know, but I mean it was that like he, he had, you know he was, he was touching the ball every play and you know there's stories of. There was one story of um, a linebacker who's two years younger than matt, and matt literally like not figuratively but literally snap broke his helmet in half, um, because he hit him so hard in the head that he, matt, broke his helmet in half. Because he hit him so hard in the head that he, matt, broke his helmet in the top of the helmet Cracked. He broke the helmet and then he took that same mentality. He wasn't the biggest, he wasn't the fastest, but he was the most aggressive football player on the field and he was fearless. That was just how people knew Matt. So then he takes that to the Naval Academy.
Speaker 2:I remember one play specifically. I think it was against Notre Dame. It was against Notre Dame, Matt was the headhunter his freshman year at the Academy and meaning on. So what a headhunter is is that it's on kickoff and your goal is to run as fast as you can and to hit the lead blocker of the guy who's receiving the ball, to hit him as hard as you can so that other people can come and tackle the ball carrier. That was the job of the headhunter and that was Matt's job. Perfect guy for the job.
Speaker 2:But I remember one, this specific play versus Notre Dame. Matt was on kickoff, hit this dude in the helmet and it literally sounded like there was a car accident in the stadium, like people went silent because the hit was so loud and Matt got up and then he walked over to the Notre Dame sideline, not Navy, wow, yeah, got up, walked over to the Notre Dame sideline, not diagnosed with a concussion or anything, because he would never say that. But then they were like yo, you're on the wrong sideline. And then he went back to the Navy sideline. But that's how. I mean, that was Matt.
Speaker 2:So I think the cautionary piece of this is and we talk about it all the time Bruce, but I don't know if Matt would have changed anything about his life because he loved the game of football so much. However, it's our job as a society, with legislation, with rules to be put in place to protect kids. Right, kids are going to do what kids want to do, but it's just like you can't have a kid shotgun and a beer at 10 years old, even though he wants to right, that's irresponsible. So we have to have those same sort of laws in place to protect kids brains for guys like Matt Right, and like Mac. So I think that's the, that's the cautionary piece of all that.
Speaker 1:And it did. Didn't he fit in some boxing? And all that too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's also that. So, yeah, yeah, so he was also a boxing champion. So, yeah, so he was also a heavyweight boxing champion. And then he served in the Marine Corps for years after that doing heavy artillery and special operations.
Speaker 1:And that was the other side that I want folks to know. Matt's case crosses both sides of repetitive brainursive trauma in certain military occupations, especially as artillery is right there at the top of the hit. And everybody saw Dave Phillips' article on those Marines, artillery guys from Syria that were just chucking rounds all day and I think half the platoon was dead from suicide, just from the impact on these brains. So now we're talking about a poor young man who loves sports and sports, you know, I mean loved him and then he joins the military, does what else he loves, and all that trauma is why, you know, we are losing our young men and women, you know that unknowingly, are doing this, and that's why you know, that's why you and I and others are focused on, you know, creating awareness. You know, because Matt should be here, right, mac should be here, and they're not and we have, you know, now we understand our mistakes and we can, we can fix this right, right, we can.
Speaker 1:Nobody's talking about getting rid of the Marine Corps, nobody's talking about getting rid of football. It's how do we train better and become lethal? And then how do we, you know, also make our sports safer through lowering the amount of our contact. But yeah, the amazing story, amazing man. I wish I could have met him.
Speaker 2:I was like kind kind of guy I want to. You know another mad story with um, just on the I'm not sure how deep you want to get into this, but just with the black sea sputum stuff. Remember he told me a story one time um, there's a lot of things he couldn't tell me, um, but remember, you know, when he was training um, he went and he told me one time I think there was like a there's a limit of how many rockets you could shoot off, right, with heavy artillery and mapping matt. I think the limit was like two or three and he shot off like eight, um, and then he blacked out. Didn't remember how he got home, um, from shooting off those rockets, right. So that's, I mean throwing up, blacked out.
Speaker 2:Didn't remember he got home, home from shooting off those rockets, right. So that's, I mean, throwing up, blacked out, didn't remember how he got home, like clear signs of concussions. But he nor do people in the military in general draw that link where it's like he had to shot off eight rockets when I was supposed to shoot off two and now I'm having concussive like symptoms, severe concussive like symptoms, but to them it's just another day on the job, right, this is just something that happens, but it's like that's obviously a clear indicator of severe traumatic brain injury, something that he didn't no one put together.
Speaker 1:And that brings up a good point, because you know the, you know, and he's a leader, right. And so, as a leader, you know, while a lot of people don't think, oh well, he doesn't shoot the mortars or shoot the artillery gun, he's usually present when those things are going off because he's monitoring his men and women right there. He's got to be there, so, you know, by virtue of his job, you know. Plus, nobody wants to bring the dang rounds home and turn them in anyway. So let's just say get rid of them and bring back the brass, right. So no, that's yeah, I'm not surprised.
Speaker 1:It happens in the military all the time. We have restrictions, but you know, we got to train. Um, you know, sometimes people don't show up. You have extra rounds lying around. There's so much fun to shoot, right, like, hey, man, give me that dude. And you just start uncorking them and and and dropping them down. Rage and and, uh, you know, switch to do right. So, um, so what was the impetus for you to start the 38 challenge? I mean, you didn't curl up, right? No, obviously we mourn right, we all mourn right. But you get to a point in your grief where and I don't even know if you were aware of why matt wasn't around you. Just I mean, did you? I don't think, I don't know you tell us about how, what? What was the Genesis of 38 challenge? How did you get to that resolution point in your grief where you said I got to do something?
Speaker 2:For sure. I think, first and foremost, I attribute it to both God having this part of my path and being obedient. Um, cause there is another, another side of this where I'm not doing this and I'm in a very dark spot, right, which unfortunately happens to a lot of people. Um, but so when Matt was so, matt got out of the Marine Corps right, he operated a Mali, was in charge of a team of special operators from across the world, right, I think it was a unit of like 12 people all operating with the United Nations in Mali. Matt was their captain. So a couple SF guys, a couple MARSOC guys and then other operators from other units around the world, at least from my understanding of what has been told to me. And when he got back from that, after that he retired because he was at this kind of fork in the road, which I don't think is uncommon for military folks, where Matt was 31 years old. If I stay in, it's going to be hard for me to start a family. I really want to start a family. I don't know if I want to make the Marine Corps my entire life and my career. Maybe I want to get out and try something else. And then he, while getting out, obviously as all servicemen or athletes do, is when that uniform comes off. Then you struggle with identity, right? You struggle with identity, you struggle with purpose, you struggle with, uh, what to do.
Speaker 2:Um, so when Matt was transitioning out of the Marine Corps, he, he moved back in home to St Louis, which in and of itself is, you know, as the quote unquote, captain of the Marine, captain America of the Marine Corps. Having to move home with your parent, you know, with your parents, at St Louis, like's again not uncommon as people try to figure out the next step of their career. And so I was very fortunate to spend a lot of time with Matt the three months before he took his life, and we got very close during that time. Not close verbally, because he did not speak a lot of words there, but I could tell that me being around Matt was helping him. Um, or at least he felt comfortable around me. He always wanted to be, he always wanted to be around me, which, as a younger brother, is like the greatest honor ever, right? Especially when you've put this guy on a, on a pedestal, your whole life.
Speaker 1:Who doesn't want to hang out with captain America, right yeah exactly on a pedestal your whole life.
Speaker 2:Who doesn't want to hang out with captain America, right? Yeah, exactly so, exactly so. We um did a lot of things together, uh, during that time. But you know, I I looking back at it now, like in the moment, obviously, especially when you're on uneducated, you don't recognize the symptoms, right, but looking back at it, know, matt's would have just like um, outbursts of anger, right. I remember one time like I seasoned a steak wrong and like he got pissed off and I was like dude, what like, what's, what's, what's your deal? Like it's not, it's not a big deal. But looking back, it's like in this, in the conversations we have with people, it's like this. That again, not uncommon, erupting and having anger about things that you shouldn't be angry about. Right, that's a, that's a common symptom of traumatic brain injury, um, depression, anxiety, all those types of things. Um, so, long story short, um, I felt like, towards the end of the time with him, I felt this like weird anxiety that I felt and like tension, that like something's not right. Uh, again, I couldn't put a finger on it during the time. So, fast forward a little bit. Matt still is. Uh, matt goes to Kansas city to become a firefighter, right? I go back to school at Texas Christian university to finish off the semester.
Speaker 2:Uh, this was right after COVID and it had been a couple of weeks since Matt and I spoke, since he moved to Kansas city, and we text each other like, hey, man, love you, how have you been? Want to hear about Kansas City? Let's talk on Valentine's Day, right? This was like four or five days before Valentine's Day that we were texting. Valentine's Day comes around and I remember looking at my phone with Matt's contact pulled up. I remember looking at my phone with Matt's contact pulled up and I didn't call him because I didn't want to feel that anxiety and that tension that I felt in St Louis between him and I, because something was not right with him and I thought it was because he didn't have his passion, his purpose, and he was going to find that in Kansas City. So I didn't call him on that Valentine's Day in 2021.
Speaker 2:And he did not call me and then, a couple of days later, I got the phone call from my mom that Matt had killed himself and I never got to have that last conversation with him. So for me, the genesis of the 38 Challenge is I'm never going to not have that hard conversation ever again, right, and I'm going to do anything in my power to empower others to have those hard conversations with people with their lives, whether you're going, whether you're someone in Matt's position or someone in my position. So that was kind of the genesis of it and I thought what better way to honor Matt than do a brutal workout right, something that he would have found challenging, that I find challenging, and that, again, we can empower other people to do hard shit. And asking for help and being vulnerable, in my opinion, is the hardest thing that you can do, because you look at Captain America, who was the highest achiever in anything that he ever did. He didn't have the strength, and it's not a dig at him or a dig at anyone, but that's how hard it is.
Speaker 2:Asking for help is that difficult. The guy who did all the difficult things didn't ask for help, right? So we're trying to change the culture around being vulnerable and asking for help. And then when we found out about CTE through one of Matt's old teammates who reached out to my mom and said, hey, but Mrs Brewer, I really think that Matt struggled with traumatic brain injuries. You should look into this. Then it all kind of clicked and then we kind of went down this journey and endless rabbit hole of brain injuries, blast exposure, trauma and all the issues that come with being a high-performing person, especially those who operate and play sports.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, I mean it's, it's getting people to talk, right, and whether you know my son, you know I go over this a million times, man, you know why didn't he tell me? What didn't I notice? And then, of course, then you get your own cycle where you start blaming yourself for not noticing things, or then you notice something's like man, I should have dug into that or I should have checked into him to see if he was sleeping. And you know, in the end you know you were a good brother, right, and you loved your brother, and there's nothing you know from the guilt side that you know you could have done other than pray that he could have said something.
Speaker 1:And the problem that, what, what? The big problem that we had back then when your brother and my son left us, is that we did not know that this issue was treatable. Right, there was, and that's you know. That's the whole other side of this. This movement is like when the hell are we going to stop researching this shit and start doing something about it? And that men and women that are suffering, whether they're wrestlers and MMA fighters or EOD techs in the military, are aware that, yeah, you might be anxious and depressed and even suicidal.
Speaker 2:But if it's been caused, if it's been caused by repetitive blast or repetitive brain trauma, dude, we can help you, right, we can, we can do something about it, you know it's not a and so another thing versus the last thing that my brother Googled before taking his life we got access to his computer was what happened to Junior Seau, what happened to Junior Seau's family. So my brother knew, and he had Googled and researched CTE. So my brother knew that something was wrong. And then at the time, and still even a little bit to today, which I think is what you and I are trying to change is this fear mongering of and this, all these disaster stories of hey, if I have CTE, I'm going to turn into this suicidal maniac and I'm going to hurt myself and the people around me, which in the past, yes, can be true, but to your point, bruce, it's like there's like any, like anything out there. That's an injury. There are ways to overcome the challenges associated with that injury.
Speaker 1:And that's what I get pissed about. I mean, even to this date. Right, we deal with some NFL players that don't want to talk about this because they think they're done right. They don't want to know, they're just waiting to become junior Seau. It's like, bro, we can do. You got to talk about this Like.
Speaker 1:The other day I met a singer and a lead singer in a band played mass amounts of football. His wife comes up to us. They're talking about his past, his struggles. I'm like, dude, we can help. He won't return my calls, my texts. I'm like, and that's what I don't know, what I'm more pissed off about this whole subject at all.
Speaker 1:But what I don't like is that after all these years of talking about CTE, we're still talking about CTE and everything we hear about CTE is like you're going to die, right, or your brain is damaged, and all this stuff Nobody talks about. Hey, we can help people with CTE, right? I mean, you can fix this, you can and can we cure it? No, it's a brain, but we can make the brain better, we can make the system symptoms subside and all that. And, dude, you know this.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about that transition, because when I met you a long time ago at the Concussion Legacy Foundation, where all this soul, survivors of these crazy tragedies kind of link up and we find each other right. Um, let's talk about your transition from hey, I want to do a workout for my brother to your deeper dive into the science of why he left, and then now transitioning to a purpose where you know you are, in a sense, in essence. You know you and jordan are leading a movement to say, right, you can play sports, but afterwards we're going to do the best we can while you're playing and afterwards that's what dude, you know you're going to enjoy your blink, right? Nobody's hearing that part, so talk to us about what you got going on, man for sure, for sure, um, yeah, and I think there's one, one point to.
Speaker 2:We made bruce's, and the frustrating thing and the thing that we all have to come to terms with is that if someone doesn't want help, we can't help them, you know, if they're not, if they're not willing to put in the work, um, and ask for help, then there's nothing that we can do, and that's. I wish that that was not true, genuinely. I do, um, but that's just, that's just the truth, man, but but I think what we can't do is we can change the messaging around it, empower people and let them know and show them that this is hope, that there is hope, so that hopefully, they, they do raise their hand and ask for help right.
Speaker 1:But who wants to ask for help when they think it's hopeless, right? It's like and I think that's what your brother and my son both struggled, I you know, with major mood disorders and it's like, dude, this is the rest of my life. I don't want to tell my folks I'm checking out, man, but I can't go on like this because there's no hope, right, it's not like cancer. I can go to get treatments or something, right, there's something that can be done. My son didn't even know why he was struggling. Your brother had a clue, but of course, when you dig into it, it's like you're going to die, so, or your rest of your life is going to be a disaster. I mean, so they have no hope and you're providing hope, so talk about that.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, so I would all again. I, when we went on the rabbit holes of, like um, ct, blast exposure, trauma, those types of things, it was like it made a lot of sense to me. But my thought immediately went to I'm a problem solver. My thought immediately went to okay, so how do we solve this problem? Like, okay, here's a problem, we're aware of it. How do we solve it?
Speaker 2:So then I started looking at you know what happens with brain injuries, trauma, high stress, environments, like what's happening in the body and in the brain, and so when you start to look at the root causes, right, of what these things are causing, like inflammation in the brain and you know the death of certain parts of the brain and the death of neurons, like you look at all these things, you look at traumatic brain injuries and high stress causing low testosterone, and you see all these different moving parts. I looked at the root causes and then I tried to find technologies that were evidence-based, that would have mechanisms that would potentially go after those root causes. So that was what I began researching. So I got into things like hyperbaric oxygen and psychedelics and photobiomodulation or red light therapy, sauna, cold points, right, all of these, and notice how none of these are pharmaceutical interventions, but they all are things that occur naturally within the body and get to the root cause of what Mac experienced and my brother experienced in the body. And get to the root cause of what Mac experienced, my brother experienced in the body and in the brain.
Speaker 2:So I started just doing that research and when I started to mention these things to leaders in the scientific community I got a lot of pushback oh, that's just that smoke and mirrors, that snake oil. We've been approached by all these different things like none of them work and I was like but these 100 different research articles say otherwise and I've got three operators telling me that hyperbaric oxygen saved their life with the before and after brain images. So my ears to the ground, looking at other scientific data that's been presented, while the current experts in and I don't think they had Mount and 10, but the current, the current experts in brain health and and all these things are saying that no, there's all that stuff snake all. And I was like I don't know.
Speaker 1:We need more research.
Speaker 2:Exactly. So then it became too. So then what I realized is that one of the problems within the brain health community, especially when it comes to treatment, is that there's a lot of skepticism within the industry. So I thought, okay, um, we need to. We need to research these things and prove whether they work or they do not work. Right, and that was really the genesis of the Brain Optimization Lab.
Speaker 2:So I'll give you a great example of hyperaric oxygen. We've been researching hyperaric oxygen for 15 years and we still don't know if it works or not. Right? I'll talk to some doctors oh, it's the best. Talk to other PhDs oh, it's pseudoscience, it's BS, it doesn't work. The reason that they think that is because there's a hundred different studies on hyperbaric oxygen, all with different protocols, some being high atmospheric pressures with high amounts of oxygen, some being low atmospheric pressure with low amounts of oxygen, everything in between with a low number of oxygen, some being low atmospheric pressure with low amounts of oxygen, everything in between with a low number of N, meaning low number of participants. So there's no conclusion of one protocol that's been proven to be effective with a high enough level of participants for it to have any sort of scientific legitimacy. So that's one example of hyperic oxygen.
Speaker 2:The other problem that we saw within the industry is that no one is researching. And this is just science in general. Right, when you're Dr Joe Duterte says this all the time but when you are trying to grow a plant, you don't isolate variables. You don't put the plant, you don't put a bunch of water in the plant and don't give it sunlight and air and soil right, you don't isolate variables. You put all those three together in a perfect concoction so that the plant can grow an optimal amount of each of those things.
Speaker 2:It's like when you go to the gym. What happens when you go and you tear your muscles? You go back, you recover, you take a protein shake, you roll out, you stretch right, these are the types of multimodality approaches is not something that is being researched in the scientific community. So that was the other thing that we really started to focus on. The Brain Optimization Lab is what happens when you start to pair some of these modalities with each other, and then how can we prove, through objective data collection, that these protocols are working or are not working? And that's really been the genesis of the Brain Optimization Lab.
Speaker 1:And your focus on working and not working and all these scientists, man, you know it's like look, working or not working is what does the patient say. It's not what your science says. If you ask me, when it comes to holistic, you know health, you know remedies or modalities, however you want to put it is, if you feel better, it's working, something's working because otherwise you wouldn't feel better. Now, could it be this? Oh, it's just, you know, because you did it the first time. But when tens and hundreds and thousands of people that have participated in studies, even though it's a small amount, I'll say, hey, this has helped me. We need to pay attention to that, all right, and it's not, you know?
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't know, man, I just uh, I'm very you know if, if, if, sniffing the Sharpie makes you not suicidal anymore, it's not the damn Sharpie. Like like what do you? Yeah, exactly Like like whatever in it. And so the approach that we take at the brain optimization lab is we do brain imaging, we do wearable devices, we do a blood work, we do spiritual fitness assessments and we take a look under the hood and understand what someone's baseline. Again, we are not diagnosing, we're just saying this is where you are. And then here's the recommended protocol to to overcome your specific challenges. Right, like you just said, bruce, it's a very, it's very.
Speaker 2:Everyone is very unique in what society wants to do and what the medical community wants to do. And what I believe the devil wants to do is to put people in these boxes and diagnose them with things right, and then that becomes their identity and then they live in that mindset the rest of their life, when in actuality, they're a unique, individually crafted person by God with very unique life challenges and traumas. Right, and they need a unique approach for them rather than this cookie cutter. Hey, I met you for 20 minutes. You have this, this and that. Here's four pills that are going to overcome that. Good luck, see you in six months.
Speaker 2:Don't kill yourself. That's pretty much the method. And then you can go talk to someone, which, again, I'm not against talk therapy, but there's a lot of talk therapists who are I don't think should have any sort of right to be giving counsel on people's mental health, and you're just. The thing that happens with the brain is when you talk about the same thing over and over and over again, it gets deeper and deeper and deeper ingrained into your memory. And that's the current model Take pills, numb yourself and then go talk about the same issue. We're not going to talk about how we can use this to empower you, or we're not going to talk about how to get out of this, this thought loop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because if you get out of it, I can't give you pills and I can't talk to you. And bill, right, I mean it's, it's. When are we going to focus on the patient right, or the individual? Now, your approach to uh, you know we're, you know, obviously, the, the brain optimization lab, your approach to athletes is, uh, you know it's, I think it is it twofold like, hey, while you're playing, because you're hurting yourself, right, we know you're hurting yourself, but you got to pay the bills, right, you got to, you know, feed the baby mama to. You know, get the car gas in the car, right, and so what's that?
Speaker 2:So more than one baby mama.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or more than one baby mama, right, I mean, hey, you know, if you're famous, go for it, right. So you know if you, but if you can, you know you got to pay the bills, right. So is your focus, hey, while you're doing this crazy stuff and this goes to veterans too right that veterans that are out there, you know that are, are, no, they're hurting, but you know don't want to really talk about it or just want to act on what they know is probably, you know, happening to them so they could, they can, improve their brain health while doing this. And then, um, I guess the focus is, after they're done, retired from the military, or um, you know, or or from the sports, from sports, then you give them the hope that they can improve their brain health and enjoy their life.
Speaker 2:So yes, so we just had a talk. We're working with this hockey guy right um, and he was telling us this story about sydney crosby about 15 years ago and when sydney was, I think, like 17 years old, they were climbing up this mountain, training in the mountains in the off season and the rest of the guys were bringing up, you know, slugging beers. Going up the mountain they got a 12 pack. Sydney crosby's talking about gut health and how 90 of the serotonin and your body is made in your gut and these, these other hockey players are like dude, what the fuck are you talking about?
Speaker 2:We're hockey players, dude, yeah, I'm just trying to enjoy my beer. Man. Again, it's the same mentality with all offers. But that's why Sidney Crosby was the best to ever do it. That's why Tom Brady was the best to ever do it. That's why Derrick Henry spends $250,000 on his body a year. That, like LeBron James, right, like all of these guys, the people who invest in their brain and in their body are the ones who become the best of all time. Right, that is what that separation is, right.
Speaker 2:So our approach at the Brain Optimization Lab is to get people to understand that right, to have a culture change where you're taking care of these. You're taking care of things that no one else is taking care of, right Through your brain health. So what does that do? Right? What are our objectives? One is we are in the business of making elite killers right, of better athletes, of more productive entrepreneurs, of better human beings, right, that's what we're after. So how do we do that? Right? All these modalities are improved just on their own, are proven to increase cognition, increase sleep, increase recovery, increase neuroplasticity all those things right, which is going to help your performance.
Speaker 2:But then what we're also after is, as we talked about, bruce, when you go and you play a game or you go on, you go shoot off eight rockets. You have inflammation in the brain, just like after you're done with a workout. You have inflammation in your muscles, right, and there has to be protocols and things put in place to reduce that inflammation so that the long-term degradation of your brain is reduced right. Degradation of your brain is reduced right, and those long-term consequences so we hope and so we think is our hypothesis is that the risk of long-term degeneration goes down right. So it's really twofold. To your point, bruce, it's how do we make you a more elite performer now?
Speaker 2:And then, how do we make sure that you are able to protect your money in the future? Right, you'll be able to be a better father to your children, a better spouse, right, a better overall human being, so you can actually enjoy the fruits of your labor down the road instead of being Junior Seau, right? Or some of these other, you know, some of these other people who, unfortunately, the disease and the injuries got to them. That's kind of our thing. And, jordan, I joke, it's like, hey, how much money did you spend on that chain around your neck? 50 grand, is that going to get you to your next contract? No, it's not. Hey, how many $100 bills did you throw at the club last night? $10,000?. Is that going to help you get to your next multimillion-dollar contract? No, right. So let's start investing into your body and into your brain so that you can make more money down the road, and then you have the capacity and the tools to protect it and live a life that's worth living down the road.
Speaker 1:I don't know what your bigger challenge is getting guys to focus on their brain health or getting them to stop drinking beer, listen, I love a few beers. Oh my Lord, if I could get back the hundreds of thousands of beer cans I've chugged in my life man as a soldier.
Speaker 2:For us. It's like we're not telling you what not to do, it's just like okay, let's do like like we got to hang over protocol man, like moderation man, everybody tells me.
Speaker 1:I say, man, the Bible always talks about moderation. I was like, where do you see that in the Bible I go? It's everywhere, man.
Speaker 2:You just got to look at it, man, you know and like it's so, like, so what we're really, what really after the brain optimization, that culture change man. So it's like like I, like we were at air force weapon school right elite, some of the most um elite fighter pilots in the world, right, and their culture is the same as every other high performing culture, which is like scotch popcorn and like zins zins girls and Celsius right.
Speaker 2:Like that's like stimulants, women and booze right, and then killing people or just being an absolute weapon Right, and that, and that's the pride that comes with it. We do not want to change that culture. We just want to bring in a little bit of balance to that culture where it's like we get it, but like hey. If culture where it's like we get it, but like hey, if you're not sleeping and you're boozing every night and your nervous systems are wrecked and you're crushing stimulants all day, then you cannot be the best of your ability, according to science and according to what your brain imaging says, like dude, you need some freaking sleep, man, yeah, yeah, exactly. And then and then they're going to become better and more satisfied and just better overall human beings, right, that's, that's we're after that balance that you're talking about.
Speaker 1:And I think that's changing culturally. I mean, you do, I, as I look at, I compare myself, you know, back in the eighties, where you know we didn't love, we just, you know, we were just animals, man. I mean, we found our way into the Army, we found our way into Special Forces, and drinking, fighting and women was just that's the life, man. You don't have to grow up either. That's the beautiful thing about the military and about being a professional sports player. You really don't have to grow up, man. You got to do your job right.
Speaker 1:The rest of the world, I'll get to maturity when I want to. Right now, I'm going to the club or I'm going to drink this 12-pack with my friends and I'm going to the bar to look at girls, right, that's just the life that we had. Now you know these newer generations I mean people say, ah, they're lazy, whatever. They're a lot more conscientious of themselves, whether it's their spiritual health, their brain health, their body health, and they are way more open to these discussions than my generation is right, I'm the last of the baby boomers.
Speaker 2:So that it's to that balance point, bruce, I think it's like, like my generation is like like, yes, we're more conscious, yes, like we understand our gut and our brain, a lot of stuff. But I do also wish that we had some more of that tenacity that you guys brought to the table and that just like getting after it. Um, because, again, it's that balance, you like that. That that you know, warrior in the garden, to my opinion is like that's the perfect you got. You should have both. You should have the ability to turn, to turn it on, and you should have the ability to turn it on and you should have the ability to turn it off. And I think a lot of my generation does not have the ability to turn it on and a lot of your generation does not have the ability to turn it off.
Speaker 1:That's a good point, man. That's a good point. We'll have to work on that. Switch man and get that going. Yeah definitely yeah no-transcript.
Speaker 2:But so we, through the 38 Challenge Brand Optimization, I'm working with this veteran right now. I won't disclose his name, but he I got connected to him back in March of last year. He shot himself in the head, tried to take his own life and survived. So this is his story. So he during, you know, during the war on terror, was enlisted right, was a heavy artillery guy. Boots on ground, had multiple, had, I think, two IEDs. I think he rolled over two IED two separate times so had two massive uh brain injuries there and then was around heavy artillery. Really his whole career. Uh put his best, had to put his best friend in a body bag in the middle of a, in the middle of a firefight, um in afghanistan. Um got out after and um, one of his other best friends took his life there was that he served with and then this guy's wife cheated on him with his business partner.
Speaker 2:And then at that point this guy, you know, decided to put a gun in his mouth and pull the trigger. And I'm like dude, like that's a lot, man, and he didn't even consider that it was his service or the or the TBIs that could have led to that decision down the road, didn't even consider it. But anyways, when we, when he came to us, his he had lost like 80 pounds from all the surgeries. His testosterone was at 100. He wasn't sleeping at night. He was grateful to be alive no longer suicidal, but grateful to be alive. But he was a mess. Fast forward a couple months, his testosterone's at 950 because we got him the things that he needed to be on. He's sleeping eight to 10 hours a night with an average sleep score of 98%. He's dating again. We have him on a weight gaining plan. I think he's put on like 20 pounds and his life's completely turned around.
Speaker 2:And so it's like those stories are what we're after, those stories of hope, and it's very possible, right, it's more. Those stories are what we're after, Bruce, like those stories of hope and like it's very possible, right, it's more than possible If you're willing to put in the work and you're willing to be vulnerable and you hear the messages that we're putting out like it's 100% possible. So just want to end with that story of hope. But where do you find us? And what's coming up? So, 38 Challenge we're shifting towards again, again, providing these scholarships to, like the ones I just mentioned. To this, this gentleman, scott, um, well, so his name won't say his last name, but to the, to the war fighter, um. And then our next event is may 6th. Uh, we have a 38 challenge event, workout event, uh, tuesday morning during a soft week special operations conference in tampa, florida. So if you're in the tampa area, make sure to register for that. I know you guys will be a part of that, bruce. Um, we'll, we'll be getting after it.
Speaker 2:And then, um, on the brain optimization lab side of the front, we've got some really exciting projects that we're working on, um, uh, which I'll catch you up more on, uh, some other time, bruce, but we're uh, uh, partnering with a group in Miami to start working with some NFL players there. And then we've got some letters of support for some pilots with, or some pilot studies with, different military groups who are interested in this kind of holistic approach. Because, again, we're not doing the. Our goal is to not do the IRB rigorous healthcare model, which I know a lot of operators are sick of because it just doesn't. Nothing gets done that way. So we're trying to again be this Trojan horse of human performance and doing the whole process. So, yeah, you can find us at the38challengecom. We're currently building a new website for the Brain Optimization Lab, but you can check out the kind of landing page right now at thebrainoptimizationlabcom. Check out the kind of landing page right now at the brainoptimizationlabcom. Yeah, and anyone who's out there that's listening, that needs help.
Speaker 1:Reach out and we'll get you the help you need. Well, brant man, it's an amazing journey, amazing story. I'm always just astounded by what you're doing as a young man, in honor of your brother and trying to help those that are suffering from these injuries that they didn, injuries that you know, they didn't know they had and sometimes they don't know that there's hope out there. So God bless you and your organizations for what they're doing, for you know athletes, veterans and children, and may the Lord bless you on your journey. I look forward to catching up with you pretty soon.
Speaker 2:Sure, yeah, we got to. We'll catch up soon, man, and I'm going to send that. I forgot to get us in that email to Legion today, but be able to announce that pretty quickly soon, I think, too, with just what Mac and 38 will be doing with the American Legion to draw more awareness to this. So I love you, man. I always appreciate the platform and just appreciate you, and more than you know's here. So you're, yeah, you're. If there's, there's one guy I could go to go to hell with a water gun with, it'd be you.
Speaker 1:So we'd go down fighting bro.
Speaker 1:That's about it, man Well thank you so much for your time and your dedication. Man Folks, another great journey. Make sure you find Brant and remember you can honor Captain Matt Brewer by doing that 38 challenge anytime you want, and it doesn't have, it's 38,. Whatever you want to do, 38 and 38 minutes, just knock it out. It's a great and, trust me, 38 minutes it's good man. You're hurting dude and I love doing them. I hate doing them until I'm done. Then I'll do it again, you know, but that's what we need to do to honor not just Matt but other men and women that are not here, their sacrifice and the issue of repetitive brain health.
Speaker 1:So, as we turn, as we end this episode right here, remember the, the second international summit on repetitive brain health, to be held September 2nd, 3rd here in Tampa. Please get online, find it. Tickets are going pretty fast. We've got an astounding list of speakers coming in and our keynotes are world-class. Remember this is the only summit on this issue. Right now, as we push forward, learn about the legislation that we got forward. That's going to be on our website.
Speaker 1:Remember the book, free book. Go to our website, wwwmpfactcom. Get your book, give it away to all your friends, get smarter as we continue on this journey of knowledge and awareness and consciousness about the issue of repetitive brain health. So take care of those brains. You only got one. Take care of the ones you love. God bless you all and we'll see you next time on another episode of Broken Brain. But hey, folks, one more thing Remember that we now have the HeadSmart app on the Google and Apple Store. Go ahead and download it. It's a concussion awareness app, but it's the only one that contains information about the issue of repetitive brain trauma and how to look at your kids to make sure that they might have just played too much of the wrong sport too long. They can still play sports. Sports are healthy. Keep them out of contact Sports all the time. Man, Protect those brains. All you got to do is download our app and guess what it has the book in it. So, anyways, see you soon. Thanks so much you.