Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman
Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman is presented by The Mac Parkman Foundation
The mission of this show and the foundation is To serve as a source of information, resources, and communications to the community of parents, coaches/Athletic trainers, medical staff, and athletes that are affected by sports-related concussions and to raise awareness of the long-term implications of concussive and sub-concussive trauma to our children.
Broken Brains will also explore how Concussive Trauma impacts our Service Members and Veterans.
Join us every week as Bruce interviews leaders and experts in various Medical fields, as well as survivors of Concussive trauma.
Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman
#7 Navy SEAL Mark Greene: Football, Combat, and TBIs
What does it take to navigate the mental and physical challenges of a 20-year career as a US Navy SEAL? Join us this week as we sit down with Mark Greene, who shares his journey from the football field to the front lines, and beyond. Discover the pivotal moments that defined his career, from overcoming injuries to facing the intense training and operational demands of a SEAL. Mark's candid recounting of his early encounters with brain injuries and the prevailing 'rub some dirt on it' mentality of the past opens up a crucial dialogue about the long-term impacts of military service and the importance of resilience.
Mark provides an insider's perspective on the grueling process of becoming a Navy SEAL, breaking down the six-month BUD/S training into four-hour increments to avoid feeling overwhelmed. He shares powerful anecdotes about the rigorous demands of SEAL training, such as his experience with the demolition course and sniper school—the relentless pressure and high standards expected of SEALs are laid bare. Mark also sheds light on the often-overlooked issue of subconcussive hits and blast overpressure, emphasizing the need for better understanding and support for those exposed to these dangers year-round as range safety officers.
But the story doesn't end there. We follow Mark's post-retirement journey, from a chance meeting at a fundraising event in New York City that led to an unexpected career opportunity at the University of Southern California, to his current role as a corporate security analyst. Mark opens up about his commitment to addressing brain trauma and mental health, discussing effective treatment options like EMDR and neurofeedback. His personal struggles and the critical role of support systems offer valuable insights for veterans and their families, underscoring the importance of self-value and perseverance. Tune in to hear Mark's inspiring story and the lessons he's learned along the way.
Make sure that you follow Mark Greene on Instagram and LinkedIn and be sure to check out his website too!
LinkedIn : Mark GreeneInstagram: @themarkgreeneClick here to buy his book: UnSEALed: A Navy Seal’s Guide to Mastering Life’s TransitionsWebsite: themarkgreene.com
Produced by Security Halt Media
Hey folks, welcome to another episode of Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman, sponsored by the Mack Parkman Foundation, where we find the most interesting folks to talk to and discuss the issues that we're having today with veterans and soldiers and our kids and athletes that are suffering the effects of damaged brains from contact sports, from their military activities, from combat, and then all the problems and troubles that we're having with incarceration and treatment issues and everything to have people understand the scale of the problem that we still have to deal with as a society. And so today we have another unbelievable guest, mark Green, us Navy SEAL. I'm going to read you some quick excerpts from the bio. This is a long one man, but an author, I mean, this is great man. I love to meet fellow authors. We don't get to meet enough of them on the show, and here we go.
Speaker 1:But uh mark seal retired um for after 20 years as a navy team, a navy seal on team 5, team 8, special boat, team 20, worked at special operations command europe, which I know very, very well, and naval special uh warfare group 4. He's been a multiple combat theaters in the Pacific Command, iraq and Afghanistan, but he began his Naval Special Warfare career as a mine man. So we'll go back to that, because we talk about some cuts of trauma. Well, what do you think a mine is? He said he served two years as an enlisted SEAL and he became an officer All right, well, we'll have conversations about that.
Speaker 1:And his career highlights were attending and graduating the Naval Special Warfare Sniper School, the NSW and SEAL Officer Commission course as well. He earned his MBA in postgraduate school work focusing on financial management. He's earned numerous awards and has been in multiple combat engagements. And if that wasn't all, after retirement he began a career at the University of Southern California's Director of Development for Veterans Programs, and he's a member of the president's staff as manager of military and veteran services. He's earned a master's of public policy and he's now returned to Virginia Beach where he works as a corporate security analyst. Mark, thank you so much for coming on the show.
Speaker 2:It's amazing to meet you Absolutely Now that you read all that stuff. I'm like man, I've done a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1:We don't hold back here man and we got to talk about the book man. Yeah. So, mark, welcome on. You know we always start the show by. You know. Just, you know, ask you to talk a little bit about yourself, but talk about how your career and your life, you know, has intersected with brain injuries or brain trauma. I noticed that. You know you might've played, you know, contact sports or whatever. Talk to us a little bit about yourself and you know what made you become a Navy SEAL. Right, I mean, a lot of us get there. There's so many different pathways to get into the special operations.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I started, like you know, we get a lot of grief for writing books and I was very hesitant to read my own or write a book on my own. And then I realized that I got interested in the SEAL teams from reading Marcinko's book and then after Marcinko's book, and then I found all kinds of other books that, uh, former SEALs had written, and this was before the internet in the nineties, so that's really all you had and, um, you know it took a lot to to write the book. But then, once I realized that, I consumed and learned everything I could on books that I read, and so that's, that's was the catalyst. But, uh, I was playing football in college and, um, I played quarterback at Miami of Ohio and kent state and I've been playing football since I think it was nine and back in, you know, back in our day. Well, when you, when you got hurt, it was like put some rub, some dirt on it and just get back out there, or if you're, if you got a head injury, it's like, hey, you got your bell rung. Uh, what, what, what day is it today? And you know, then they send you back on the field to finish playing. So I think I got my first head injury. I think I was 10 or 11. It was a head on collision with uh, with another kid, and everybody in the in the stands visibly or audibly like we're both just sitting there and I didn't know what day it was and two minutes later I was playing again. So, um, that's how I first experienced brain injuries.
Speaker 2:Um, but I was. I was at kent state and doing pretty well, I was progressing, but I took a shoulder injury that ended my career right away. Oh really, yeah, a buddy of mine, jeff Turner, said hey, bro, don't worry about it, we're going to go be Navy SEALs now. So there was a video that I watched called Be Someone Special that I watched called uh, be someone special, and it was old school and it was uh. It turned on the um, the Inferno of going into the special operations, and you know I decided that day that that's what I was going to do. Um, so I went to, I transferred back to Miami after my career was over and I just wasn't in it for athletics. And I flunked out of college and I was working at Blockbuster Video, which I'm sure you know about.
Speaker 1:I still remember Blockbuster. I couldn't afford a VCR, but I remember Blockbuster Video.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I met a gentleman who changed my life forever. He walks in um and said, uh, hey, man, do you uh know this movie about this one girl who turns into an alien, just starts eating people? And I said, uh, yes, sir, I think I do. And he's like, yeah, yeah, man, uh, that movie speckies. And at that moment my heart broke. And I said, sir, do you do? And he's like, yeah, yeah, man. Uh, that movie Specky's. And at that moment my heart broke and I said, sir, do you mean species? And he's like, yeah.
Speaker 1:So at that point, I was like I can't I was 24.
Speaker 2:Uh, so I was like I got to do this thing now. If I don't do it now, I'm just going to be a regular guy. And I just didn't want that level of mediocrity. I guess because my mom had always told me I was going to be some, do something important and special, and at the time I just wasn't on track to do that.
Speaker 1:And so after the species incident, I joined the Navy, no kidding, so did you.
Speaker 2:I went down to MEPS and joined up the next day and I shipped out about a month later. Okay, and I showed up to boot camp and didn't research the Navy Navy uniforms or anything. And I show up two in the morning, get my uniform and they give me these dungarees what the Navy called them, just ugly, bell-bottom blue jeans. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and dungarees what the navy called them, just ugly, bell-bottom blue jeans. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and an uglier blue shirt. I'm like ugh, where's the, where's the navy seal uniform?
Speaker 1:you mean, I'm not a seal already?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, he's like man, nobody makes it through the seals.
Speaker 2:This is the navy uniform and I was like, oh all right, this is what we're doing and I, uh, showed up at the boot camp and then back then we didn't have it's not as sophisticated as it was as it is now. You just showed up and said, hey, I want to be a, a seal, and you take the screening test week four, and you, you pass the test, you get orders and six months later, after a school, you're at um, you're at buds, and that's what I did. So I failed it the first time, uh, because as big and strong as I was, I couldn't do pull-ups.
Speaker 1:So this is no joke, dude man.
Speaker 2:We all know that, but yeah yeah, so I mean it was the, the boot camp bud seal physical fitness test and I screwed up the pull-ups so I had to work on the test yeah, yeah, I didn't even show up.
Speaker 1:Yet I was a boot camp whoops yeah so but I don't know how hard pull-ups are when you're a big, strapping, muscular guy. That's a lot of you know arse, that you got to get up there you know how hard can they be.
Speaker 2:You know, and I found out. But I ended up passing the test and went to Mineman, a school and you had to pass the test one more time. But I had broken through that mental barrier of, hey, I can, you know. I broke through a barrier. So I was like, okay, the next time I do it, I know how to prepare. And it was no big deal, passed it again and then I showed up at Bud's in January of 1997.
Speaker 1:So what's a mine man? I haven't heard of that, m West. Is that like? I don't know? Is that underwater demolitions? No?
Speaker 2:So it's the Navy. You're on a minesweeper ship, so you go out into the Gulf at the time and you sweep the Gulf for mines. And the ship's made out of wood because metal is magnetic and the mine will hook right up to the to the ship and blow up the ship.
Speaker 2:So your bait yeah uh, blow up the ship, so your bait, yeah. So I was, uh in a school and, uh, I did a tour of the ship and I was so tall I just bumped my head on everything. And the thing that, yeah, the thing that turned me off completely knowing that I'd never get on ship again, was when they put me in the beds and I was it's not made for, it's not made for a 6'3 guy and you know, my shoulders were spilling off the side. I was, I was in the fetal position because that's the only way I could fit.
Speaker 1:I was like, yeah, I'm not doing this stack what you got, four high or something like that. Right, yeah, they were four. You can't sit up. Yeah, you can't sit.
Speaker 2:You know the new guy gets the top rack, so you know I was going to be even more crunched. I'm like, yeah, I'm not doing that.
Speaker 1:I've been on a couple of ships in my life with some training and we do an ACDC concert at one at the Special Operations Conference here. And man, when you crack your shin on you know, when you walk through the doors and stuff, you realize these boats don't move. I have no idea how you guys get through a tour in the Navy Still got hips and knees. I mean like there's no give on those boats at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, those poor bastards who do a career in the Navy. Man, I'm like man. You guys are cast iron, you know, but they do it and a lot of guys love it, so I was not that guy though I was not.
Speaker 1:No, you, yeah, obviously you weren't that guy. So it took you one tour of the ship to say, man, I'm done with this stuff man, I'm gonna go I'm gonna go figure out how to do pull-ups. Good for you, man, good for you. So, 1997, you end up in buds. I've run the beach in coronado, by the way, I've got some good friends. I used to do some contracting with SEALs. I run that beach because if you have an ID card they just stop you. So you end up in Bud's. What?
Speaker 2:was that like it was great. I mean it was incredibly challenging and day-to-day it was not as hard as I thought it would great, I mean it was incredibly challenging and day to day it was not as hard as I thought it would be, but cumulatively it was much harder than I thought. Cause 180 days of anything sucks, um, but 180 days at that level.
Speaker 2:And, um, but I was. Once I showed up, my dad, when I was young, I was getting ready to go to my first practice, and he sits me down and said okay, once you start something, there's no quitting. Make your teammates rely on you and you could be the starter or you could be on the bench, but once you're committed to this thing, then you're committed and you're going to finish it. And I said, yeah, pop, yeah, whatever. So he stops me, pulls me back and looks at me in a certain way, like I don't think you understand what I just said. He's like you want to start something, that's it. And I was like, wow, this is okay. And from that day on, once I showed up, once I showed up at the seal compound, then that was all. All bets were off on quitting. That wasn't even an option, so it was.
Speaker 2:Now, how do I figure this thing out? Because, um, it's one of the toughest trains in the world for a reason. And you know you're not in seal shape when you get there and no, and nobody is in seal shape when you get there and no, and nobody is. So you know, it took me, oh, it took me about a month of pre-training just to get in shape and that was a struggle and I thought I was not doing well and I was bugging the instructor staff all the time and finally there's like green, just shut up in color, and you know we just do what we tell you, you're asking too many questions.
Speaker 2:It's not that serious and you know, but I was, I was like I took it very seriously, I respected it. And um, there's a gentleman named senior chief Mink and he was a uh development group guy, one of the plank owners. And, uh, as I was struggling one day internally I was struggling, they, the instructors, the staff thought I was doing well and he pulls me over to the side and you know he does one of these looks over and said okay, hey, you're doing fine, but I'm going to give you this sunscreen. It's called Bullfrog and he's like everybody I've given Bullfrog to has graduated and he looks around again.
Speaker 2:It's like and I'm giving it to you and I was like it was like a trophy right and it was like uh in indiana jones when he got that golden head and it was glowing just like that bottle of uh bullfrog. You know that was the last thing I needed to. That confidence was like this guy is a plank owner at the highest level in the seal community and he says I'm going to be fine. So once I figured that out and um, figured out how to to get through buds which for me it was my stomach would growl every four hours and magically they fed you every four hours. So once my stomach started growling, I was like I'm good man, I'm ready to go eat.
Speaker 1:It's funny, you take hunger off the table. Man, how much, how far you can go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So I was like well, this is, I can do this for another 20 minutes because they got to feed me. And then, once I broke it up and Dinner bell rings.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, once up and dinner bell rings, yeah, once I broke it up into increments that I could manage. Like guys look at it as a six month thing and those guys overwhelm themselves and they eventually quit. And I just knew that physically I could do it, mentally I was, I was, I could do it, and then I just had to keep my body straight and then not get overwhelmed by it. So for me to not get overwhelmed, I just took it in four hour increments.
Speaker 1:And people understand too that once you graduate buds and all that craziness you're just the FNG on the team. You still got all kinds of. You got, you know, whatever jump school, halo school, you got all this. So I mean, what was the cumulative total of training to? Finally, you know whatever, jump school, halo school, you got all this. So I mean, what was the cumulative total of training to? Finally, you know, feel like you were that fully qualified?
Speaker 2:I think the day I retired. I think the day I retired I was like, okay, I'm a good SEAL, good answer, good answer yeah, yeah, I didn't. I never was really a good Green Beret until I became a Sergeantant major. So I got you man, yeah, it took a while because you know you, because buds is just a selection course, right, and back then you're not learning anything really, it's just you're learning the basics. It's basic underwater demolition, and you're learning the basics.
Speaker 2:You can't do anything once you get on a team because you don't know anything. Um, so I, we went to the qualification course, which was another six months, and then we get integrated into a platoon and that's when the, that's when the learning starts and it's full. It's fire hose on full blast and you're under constant scrutiny and you have to perform and you don't have your trident at that point. So if you're not doing well the, the chief can say, hey, man, man, he's not cutting it and he's not going to be a good SEAL, so you get to go away after all that work. So you're always on edge and the information is coming fast and you have to perform.
Speaker 2:And so I got my trident and they said, hey, guess what you get to do? You get to go to the seal weapon systems course, which was basically a demolition course. Um, it was two weeks long and a week along. It was just um, calculating blasts and you know, executing stuff like that. So the worst position, I think, was the three position, because as waves propagate they kind of come around and smack you at a certain point and all the old guys knew that the three spot was the worst, so they're gonna put the new guy in there so for a week and probably a hundred blasts.
Speaker 2:I was just getting my ass handed to me and um, and I think that's a hundred blasts in one week, yeah. Easy and the three spot in the worst spot, and you just had to suck it up and and we didn't know any better back then, we didn't know about no what year was this? I think it was 98.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's when I was still in the army back then, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we didn't know I built the. You know the urban, you know the whole CQB course for 10th Special Forces Group and we didn't have no blast. You know shields, no, nothing. I mean it was just let's get in there. Where's your bullet traps, line them up, move them around, stack on the door, blow it again, you know. So, yeah, I mean, and that was just becoming a demo guy and once you get back to the team you practice that stuff, you know quite a bit too, yeah.
Speaker 2:And and then going through sniper school, you know you're shooting the 50 cals and you're only I think you're only supposed to shoot 20 rounds a day, because the blasts and the concussion causes the psr tears in your heart and lungs and they were like, yeah, this is what you're supposed to do, but we're SEALs, so we're going to max it out. I think we were shooting 100 rounds yeah.
Speaker 1:The guidance is 20 rounds but we're SEALs so we're tough. I can only triple that. So you shot 50s in sniper school.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we learned all the weapon systems, so we did .308, and then we did .300. Win Mag. Oh sorry, I'm sorry, we started off with M14s.
Speaker 1:That's what I went to sniper school with way a long time ago.
Speaker 2:Our Army Marksmanship Unit came out and taught us how to shoot those iron sights. So you had to pass the iron sight course to graduate to, to earn optics, and M 14 was fine. And then we went to the bolt gun. Uh three, oh eight two, four, three. Yeah, and then we went to the 300 wind mag and then finally our. Our last qualifier was on the 50 Cal.
Speaker 1:Dude, that's an amazing gun too. Yeah, it reaches out, doesn yeah, dude, that's an amazing gun too. Yeah, it leashes out, doesn't it Touch you from?
Speaker 2:far away.
Speaker 1:But you're right, man, that PSI, I think for a .50 cal. It was at a counterblast measures conference about two months ago and I think a .50 cal, the acceptable range for PSI on anything is four PSI, I think a .50 cal is between 18 and 21. And that's just one shot. So now you're talking about, you know, hammering multiple shots, and then we'll talk about combat a little bit later. When you rip off an entire belt of a hundred of those dark things, every one of those is a subconcussive hit. So yeah, man, that's crazy. So all right. So you went to the sniper school. Now do you have like, does everybody do this on a on a seal in a seal platoon? Is this like part of the Q course or individuals get assigned these tasks to go accomplish? And come back to the platoon.
Speaker 2:So normally you are a seasoned guy. Uh, maybe after your second platoon, maybe your third, you know you put in for sniper school and you know you might get it. So everyone's chomping at the bit to get sniper school. And Bruce, I was walking, I got home from my first deployment and I was just walking around the command and some guy yells out. I was like hey, what are you doing? And I look around at senior chief and he's like hey, senior, senior, I just got back from deployment Just kind of hanging out and he's like pack up your shit, you're going to sniper school.
Speaker 2:I was like, no, I'm not, you've been voluntold, yeah, and he's like we need one more body and you just happen to be walking by, so you're going. I was like not prepared, confidence wise, it was a confidence thing because it's a it's a 10 week stress course and it sucks, but you're learning it. You're learning a brand new skill and art, yeah really and it was tough. It was one of the toughest, other than Buzz. I think it was the hardest course that I've I've ever been to. Um, just because there's yeah, there's.
Speaker 2:There's so little room for mistakes because you have to score an 80% on all your tests, um, over the course of 10 weeks and that. And then you go over to the stalking, to the sneaky guy portion, which I didn't pass the first time, and it's just the way my mind works. They gave a demonstration of quick ones, like hey, here's how you build up a gun, but they didn't actually show us how to do it. Some guy was already prepped and his gun looked beautiful, right, and we couldn't find it. Oh, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:And the next day we got to practice for like an hour. And and the next day we got to practice for like an hour and like, all right, tomorrow morning we start graded. And I just never figured out, in a way that I learned to learn, which was answer every question, stay late and just guide them through it and explain to them why they're doing what they're doing. And then finally, they would fire me, which was the best day, because, um, you know I'd be in their ear and what do you see here? And what are you doing here? And and one day they'd say, mark, I got it.
Speaker 2:And the light bulb came on and at that point I was a fired instructor and I was just kind of given small course corrections or something. But the teaching portion was done and they took over and did a great job. But I loved the day that I got fired by my students.
Speaker 1:The first thing I'll say is I used to hate stalking, cause nothing ever moves so slow in my life. Dude, I am an impatient man and crawling and moving at the speed of molasses, it wasn't for me. I mean, I, I, I was a cat to sniper man, it was SF, had this school, I went to it, man, it was pretty cool. I wasn't a Sephardic tech sniper. And then, um, but your, your point is, and then, of course, we'll talk about the your career in between. But now, as a as a sniper instructor, we're seeing significant problems with range safety officers because their only job is to take those subconcussive hits all the time. I mean, if you're a student, you're there, for you said like two to ten weeks, you, or whatever that I'm sorry the time frame, but you know your, your, your exposure is kind of short, but it's significant. Now, if that's your job, big man, you're doing this thing 12 months a year. Yeah, for three years three years three years
Speaker 1:you're sitting there eating subconcussive blows and we're you know I'm trying to get the audience to understand this is just one aspect of a military service job that has never, ever until now, been understood or evaluated or considered an injury. That you know and what we're yeah, and this is what we're diving into, stories like yours that are directly can be attributed to military service, where you know we're not, you know it's. The military hasn't even caught up to this concept yet. They're starting and they're doing a. I got to say they're starting to really pay attention, but we've got decades Well, we've got two decades of combat deployments and training where we've trained harder than ever, and I, you know, and so let's go right to 9-11, man, I mean obviously you know, and so all right, so let's go right to 9-11, man, I mean obviously you're in the seals. 9-11 happens. Man, where's Mark Green? What's? What's? What's Mark Green doing? And and um, and then what happens to Mark Green at right after that?
Speaker 2:So we're on our second deployment in in the Pacific and we're on Okinawa and we're up watching, you know, watching a movie, and all of a sudden one of the guys calls everybody in and we see one of the towers on fire or smoking. And we all were kind of like, well, what movie is this? Yeah, you don't the Twin Towers, you never see them on fire. And all the information is coming in and we're watching and and then all of a sudden we see the second plane crash into the tower. I was like, okay, we are, we're at war.
Speaker 2:Then the phone starts ringing and everybody needs to be accounted for and, uh, so we, we're supporting the navy, right, so we get, get on the USS Germantown and start heading south towards Jakarta, indonesia, because outside of the Middle East that's the highest concentration of Muslim population outside of the Middle East, and they were threatening to overrun the embassy. So we were preparing for a Mio and the Navy consolidated the Marine Corps and, um, everybody, all their aircraft and their ships. We just started steaming south and, you know, we're practicing and implementing vietnam era tactics because we didn't know what we know, dude, yeah, we were prepping for the last war, yeah, right, so, um, so we're going down to jakarta and as we get down there, things kind of settle down because you know you talk about a lot of stuff until the navy shows up, until the us military shows up, and it's like, yeah, I think I'll think twice about this whole.
Speaker 1:Yeah, give me a few seconds here, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:So nothing ends up up happening and we thought we were going to go right from there to Afghanistan and just start shooting bad guys. But you know, we're required to. We have obligations in the theater, as you know, and in the meantime actually downrange. They're using Vietnam air tactics in Afghanistan and we're just they don't work anymore, they don't work there. And so, uh, the development group luckily came back as a all stop, what we're doing is not working in this theater. So they would come back and develop tactics on the on the fly, perfect them and then come back from deployment and then show up to the regular SEAL team and said, okay, everything you're doing, we're not doing that anymore. And here are the new tactics. So everything changed and luckily we're so small that we could implement those changes right away.
Speaker 2:So I came home from that deployment and put in for my OCS package to go to become an officer. So from 2003 to January of 2004, I was getting my commission and I got my commission showed up, reported to SEAL Team 8, and that's when I found out that all the tactics had changed and I'd kind of been out of the game for a little, almost two years. So, from deployment, return from deployment, teaching the sniper school, going to OCS and then showing up at SEAL Team 8. It was about 18 months. So I was a brand new guy again, because I didn't know the new tactics.
Speaker 2:You got to catch up, yeah, so I had to catch up and again fire hose on full blast and new weapon systems are getting introduced, and that's when I discovered what a Carl Gustav was. And you talk about blast and you know minimum, I think for that weapon system. I think it was minimum of two, two to three. Well, they had no minimum until, like, I don't know minimum. I think for that weapon system I think it was a minimum of two, two to three.
Speaker 1:Well, they had no minimum until, like, I don't know I'm still trying to research that one but it wasn't until not too far along ago, like 2012, 2013,. They said, okay, four, yeah, and I mean I mean so how many? Of course that doesn't apply to Navy SEALs, right?
Speaker 2:No, they're like for my ass. We have 100 rounds and we're going to shoot 100 rounds.
Speaker 1:We're not turning these in, yeah.
Speaker 2:So then it's another. You're bailing again over and over and then you're learning the system, but then you don't get to go away. You're RSOing for the guys who are up after you, so you're getting probably 60 to 80 rounds a day for the three or four days that we're training on that thing and for those of you that don't know what a carl gustav is, it's.
Speaker 1:It's an anti-tank. It's, it's. It's a. It's a big missile that's launched. What millimeter is? Is that, mark?
Speaker 2:Oh, I have no idea. But I mean, this thing takes yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, if it take down a tank I know that the boys used them a lot to take down houses, because you know there just comes a point where if you're taking fire, you might as well just knock a dang house down, yeah, but yeah, I mean, this thing puts out a massive blast and it just happens to be right next to your ear, which is unprotected. Even if you have ear protection, that is a quick pathway right to the brain, right. And so the 80, that's 84 millimeter, right. So the mortars that we fire traditionally in infantry are 81s. Spec ops, guys like Mark and I carried 60 millimeters back in the down.
Speaker 1:No, I'm the caveman here, but the uh, but an 81 millimeter rocket or 84, right next to your ear, and I mean we, they just started realizing. I even know what caused them to say, hey, it's got a limit. So you're, you're, you're over there. Not only you know shooting the damn things, but now you're teaching them, and then you're the RSO for the guys coming behind. Yeah, wow, how many of those, how many of those things do you think you fired in your life?
Speaker 2:I think I I fired at least 30, but I RSO for at least 200.
Speaker 1:And there's really not too much of a change.
Speaker 2:I was like, what's the difference?
Speaker 1:Either you're shooting it or you're sitting right on the guy's shoulder eating it anyways, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the only safety on it was, you know they. They had some breacher did the minimum safe distance on it and but they were. The biggest concern was hey, we're double air pro and you're fine.
Speaker 1:Dude, what's the but they were? The biggest concern was, hey, we're double air pro and you're fine, dude, I mean I've never fired one, so I mean you could feel that thing right. Oh yeah, it's got to be. I mean you can feel a mortar when it leaves the tube, but yeah, I can only imagine having that thing go out right next to you. It's got a and it's. You know, it's not only the blast pressure when it goes off, but when it goes out the tube that all that pressure is coming back at you from. You know, the, the, the motor, the or whatever's on the ass end of that thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a, it's a monster. I mean it's a great round for four rounds and then you know you're just getting your ass kicked for it?
Speaker 1:How do I focus after that man? It'd be like drinking a six pack or something, trying to shoot the first one.
Speaker 2:And that's the thing You're. You get done on the range and what do you do afterwards? You go out and have a couple of beers or whatever, and that can be uh, that can be an end of the manuals for recovery.
Speaker 1:So let me dial into something else because, like I try to tell folks all the time is like look, you know, whether it's sports or train or military training, we can make it safer, we can limit exposure. We can come up like I saw uh some of the guys, uh, um, uh some of the spec ops guys that that are now coming up with uh blast packages where they can wrap the blast in plastic or metal that puts the pressure outward, while they can wrap the blast in plastic or metal that puts the pressure outward while they're cracking the door. So I mean we're looking at different ways to mitigate exposure, but in combat it's like a football game man. You got to leave it on the field. So talk to us about, like you know, what we've done in training, what you've done in training, right, I mean, that's one obviously a bunch of significant trauma that your brain has been exposed to.
Speaker 1:Now what about combat, when you just have no control over how many rounds you're going to fire? I mean, you know an engagement. I mean, do you even wear ear protection in these things? I mean, if you're going full time? I mean, or can you even talk to each other? Is it all radio or?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's all radio. This is a whole war.
Speaker 1:I missed man.
Speaker 2:So we have integrated sound canceling headphones that act as our comms headphones. So you know your ears are protected, but your head's not protected. The rest of your body's not protected really. So when you're and even in training, you know you throw those flashbangs and it's an overpressure situation because the room's usually closed off and small. So those things are going. You're getting 60 of those a day because you're doing day and night runs.
Speaker 2:But when you're on target, you know the breacher shows up and you crash, they blow up the door. The breacher shows up and you crash, they, they blow up the door. And uh, you know, if you're, if your targets um pretty heavy with bad guys, you're crashing stuff all over the place and then if, if that target is, these are something else, then you're loading back up and then you're going back and doing it again over and over again for a cycle. So you know we would go out probably every other night and you're just doing the same thing and, um, you know, if you got lucky as far as concussions go, you weren't throwing, you were going to permissive targets where you, you breach the door, go in the room. They're like hey, we're good. Um, you breach the door, go in the room they're like hey, yeah, we're good um right, but you're still getting that, that blast, and it's just continuous dude.
Speaker 1:So, and how many? How many deployments did you have? Mark five, five or six, five?
Speaker 2:yeah, five or six, yeah I'm, I'm trying to think I think it's six, but my, my sixth one. I was on the staff and and so I didn't go out, so I don't count that really as going out and kicking indoors. Combat deployment it was supporting the special operations guys, the Green Berets, primarily in Afghanistan.
Speaker 1:And that's a whole. Other aspect of this is that when I talk to people I say, look, you know, I mean in Vietnam you did one tour. If you're a little nuts, you could volunteer for the second. And I know some psychopaths, I mean they were bonafide, crazy guys that trained me, that had three tours, right. But to hear you say five tours, that's like, that's like the average, right, and some are higher, some are lower, and how long was each tour? Month?
Speaker 2:So ours were luckily just six months. I mean you guys go over for a year. I mean conventional guys go over for a year, right. But yeah, I went to Iraq and came back and did operations over in special operations over in PACOM there was a little skirmish going on in Philippines that was rarely talked about Different aspect of combat over there Then came back and then went to Afghanistan and then it was Iraq and Afghanistan combined. So we were in theater at least four times or five times.
Speaker 1:Wow, and then um, and then that's discontinued all the way through your retirement.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I went over to soccer, and that's when I did the the staff deployment.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a tough deployment over there with all that beer and schnitzel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, picked up a couple of pounds. You know, appreciation for German food, oh God, I love that place. Yeah, picked up a couple pounds you know Great appreciation for German food.
Speaker 2:Oh God, I love that place you know, seeing it from a staff perspective was that's when you start to open your aperture to not just the tactical level. You're looking at what the general sees and what the State Department sees, what um department of defense sees as the strategy for for combat and winning or sustaining, and it's a completely different picture and um a lot of thought went into um how we were going to utilize forces, internal and external, and um to meet our objective, to meet the mission.
Speaker 2:But we were still getting mortars on base all the time.
Speaker 1:In Sakhir.
Speaker 2:Oh, when you were forward deployed, yeah, when you were forward deployed as part of the command.
Speaker 1:Okay oh, yeah, yeah, those things. I had to go visit some of my employees every now and then. Yeah, that stuff was nonstop.
Speaker 2:That was like white noise unfortunately right, Mortars hitting all over the base. And you know, unfortunately right, it's hitting all over the base. And you know my first uh, my first alarm clock in iraq was the ids that would go off uh eight in the morning after prayers and they go back.
Speaker 1:That's your alarm clock eight o'clock 805 you know, uh, so the first one that went off.
Speaker 2:I jumped out of of my bed and, bruce, if you would have asked me where that blast started, I would have said in my tent or right next to my head or right outside the tent.
Speaker 1:They're that powerful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you would go into the dock and you would get the report and there was sometimes 12 miles away, but it felt like right next door, massive amounts of explosions yeah, wow, 12 miles away, but it felt like right next door.
Speaker 1:Massive amounts of extortion, yeah, wow. So you get through, you know, and so you get through your five tours, your command time, and then you decide to retire yeah, so it was 20 years and you know it was 44 and like I'm going to be more marketable at 44 than 54.
Speaker 2:And it was. You know it was time to go and um, so I retire. And the worst thing was Friday I was Mark green Navy seal, cool guy still. And Saturday I was just Mark. Nothing special about you anymore. You can't go back to the compound anymore. The guys are still running and gunning and I consider myself tolerated but not welcome anymore. And it wasn't bad, it was just, the guys are still in it. They're still, you know, the props are still.
Speaker 1:I got no time for you, man.
Speaker 2:And they're like hey, mark, great to see you. We're heading down to do our land warfare in Arkansas or wherever we're doing it, and let's go have a beer next time we connect. And a lot of the times you don't get to see the guys anymore, and it's not that they don't like you anymore, it's just you're not a team guy anymore.
Speaker 1:Oh no, you are right there. I don't know if you went through depression. I was depressed. I couldn't get a job. I was so depressed when I got out of the army. You know same thing Green Beret Company Sergeant, Major Green Beret, Pirate Captain. And next thing, you know, I'm. I'm getting married, two girls coming into my life.
Speaker 1:I wanted to go back to combat, bro, you know, and, and I'm like, yeah, so it is, it's, it's, is, it's a tough transition. And then after that is that, when you started noticing that you were having struggles with the mental health or lethargy, how did those challenges start?
Speaker 2:So it started after my in 2010, my deployment coming back from from Afghanistan. And we were, we were working pretty hard and there was a helo that had gone down. Um, they were doing turnover and SEAL Team 4 and SEAL Team 5 were doing turnover Helicopter crashed and um, the CO said hey, mark, doing a great job, you know there's going to be a firefight up on cause. We got to go destroy that helicopter. So you and your boys get to go up and there's going to be a firefight and have a good time. And so we go up on the mountaintop and no kidding, it was just mayhem up there and I got on a plane, packed up my stuff after that op and I was flying home the next day and then I did a job of the operations officer, the S3. And that's when I realized like I couldn't organize my thoughts, I couldn't learn as fast as and I just wasn't picking it up. I was like I'm smarter than this, I know I can do this.
Speaker 1:So you're still in the military. Oh, so this started before you retired. Yeah, oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't know it either until I retired, got some help and they started going through your background and like when did all this start? And that's when I realized like I got home from my Afghanistan tour and I just couldn't learn anymore and it was such a struggle. Things that I could rattle off right away or organize quickly, it just it was like I was running through a swamp and I just couldn't figure it out. So you hid it and nobody noticed, huh.
Speaker 2:Well, the commanding officer knew it. He's like Mark, what's going on? You're just why aren't you figuring this's a hard job, but it's not so hard. You have a master's degree. What are you, what are you doing? And I was like boss, I don't, I don't know. And it was just either you're not trying hard enough or you're just not good at this job. And this is almost 12 years ago. There was no science behind, it was just hey, you suck. And I was trying to say I was like, yes, sir, but I'm just not, I just can't figure this out. And it was, you know. So that's when it all started.
Speaker 2:And then, um, when I retired, when everything got quiet as you know, bruce, when you're, you don't have anything on your plate and life just gets quiet that's when things start to manifest and you're not sleeping and you're not connected, you're not able to connect with your family. Depression sets in because you're not doing the job again that you've trained 20 years for and that was your, I mean, it was all inclusive, and you're just not doing that anymore and you don't have a job, you're unemployed for the first time in 20 years for. And that was your, I mean, it was all inclusive and you're just not doing that anymore and you don't have a job, you're unemployed for the first time in 20 years, you don't know what you're good at and then you're just like man. I am not doing well, but I was married yeah, married four kids.
Speaker 1:Wow, you got all that going on yeah.
Speaker 2:So the opportunity to go out to university of southern california just happened to land in my lap. I met this wonderful gentleman in new york city for a fundraising event.
Speaker 1:You, guys fundraise better than anybody I know. Man, I've been trying to get green brains take lessons from you for a decade, dude man, but yeah you know I'm gonna talk about your fancy fancy fundraiser on that big aircraft carrier. Man, you guys got it going. Man, I got my hands. My hats are off to you from the way you take care of your community and so yeah, it's really.
Speaker 2:We've had a lot of support, which is good. But this gentleman, he asked what I was going to, what I was going to do when I retired. I was like, sir, I have no idea.
Speaker 1:I was like sir, I have no idea.
Speaker 2:I was like I don't even know what I'm doing. I'm laughing because I've been there, bro. I mean, that's it. I'm laughing because I've been there and I was applying for the FBI and that was the easy button. And he flew me out to LA and he just took care of me. He's like hey, we're going to make sure you're taken care of.
Speaker 2:And one thing led to another and he read my resume and said hey, mark, the company I own, I'd be doing you a disservice to stick you behind a desk. Now. You have a job if you want one. But, um, I'm going to go take a campus tour. I got to see a buddy of mine at USC. Do you want to come? I was like hell, yeah, I want to go to USC. So he knew that I would be a good fit there. And, um, I go on campus and it's just awesome. It's graduation week. There's a different kind of mayhem and chaos. And I step out of the car and said man, this would be a great place to work. And he never said anything. And I never said anything. Two weeks later he said everything we talked about two weeks ago. Forget it. I got you four interviews at USC and I was like okay. I was like well, what am I interviewing for? And he said, oh, don't worry about it, just don't suck. And he hung up the phone.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right.
Speaker 2:So I get a USC colored tie, I get a suit and I show up to my interviews and I'm just, I'm practicing, so I'm not, I'm not. I mean, I know I'm not going to move out to LA and um, so I'm just practicing. And the gentleman says, hey, mark, when you're done, just come back to the office and we'll talk real quick. And uh, I was like, yeah, no problem. So I come back to his office and said, hey, what's it going to take to get you at USC? And it took me a second and I was like, holy crap, this is a job offer. So, to be polite, I threw out a number that I thought was astronomical, right, and I was like, well, here's my, here's my asking price. It's like, oh yeah, no problem.
Speaker 2:I could have gone more. I was expecting him to say you little punk, get out of my office.
Speaker 2:And I'm like oh sorry, you know I get it. You know thanks for the offer, but you know I'm going to have to decline. But he just kept. He's like we want you out here, so I'm not being prepared. I was like, oh well, you know my wife works in the medical field and you know getting her job is going to be a pain in the butt and of course I didn't research this. He gets on the phone, calls up a guy and said hey, I got a guy I want to hire. Uh, do you have a position at the usc medical center?
Speaker 1:I was like shit right, you're in a hole now, yeah, and then I had one more out.
Speaker 2:We just had one more out. So I said, oh, you know, I have three kids and school systems are I don't even know where to live, school systems. Suck gets on the phone again and said, hey, I got't even know where to live the school systems. Suck gets on the phone again and said, hey, I got a guy I want to hire. Do you still have those three scholarships with the private?
Speaker 1:those three.
Speaker 2:I'm like bro, come on so it was like a mafia movie.
Speaker 2:It was an offer I couldn't refuse. So he hangs up the phone. He's like are we good? I'm like do you have anything else? I was like um, yeah, I think we're good. Wow so. But my wife at the time was not not having it, and so the gentleman who got all the started said okay, how about this? How about have your wife come out? She can pick any house in LA, malibu, beverly Hills, whatever. Dude, have her pick her house. You stay out here for five years. Um, I'll pay off the loan house of yours and I go back to my wife. I'm like you are not going to believe what kind of stuff they just offered it's the best package ever heard.
Speaker 2:I've been employing people for 20 years. Yeah, yeah, she's like, yeah, I'm good. So she stayed here and I'm like something good's going to happen out here and I want you to come with me, but I can't I, you know, I can't force you to go, but I'm taking this opportunity and I think she made an individual decision. So I took the job and it was going to only be temporary because my FBI package was in. As soon as that FBI package would have popped out, I'd been like, hey, thanks for the offers, great, great time out here.
Speaker 2:But when I, when I got out there, it was just so welcoming. You know, I, I know that I wouldn't reproduce that and maybe see a locker room ever. It's such a unique and like you wouldn't um your team rooms, there's nothing. There's been nothing like it, I'm sure, since you retired that locker room. But the people at USC were so welcoming and they're like, hey, well, how long have you been? Uh, when'd you graduate? It's like, no, ma'am, I just got here. I'm not a Trojan yet. It's like, oh, bullshit, you're a Trojan, you're here. Yeah, and it was just.
Speaker 2:I had instant locker room again. I had a new mission now and it was in an environment that I didn't expect but it was. It was, they were my tribe and I was like this is, this place is amazing. And I already had a master's degree. So I'm just like how do I become a part of this thing forever? Because it was so.
Speaker 2:It was such an amazing experience that I said I know I can't stay out here forever, but how do I remain part of this usc family forever? And unfortunately, some guys like well, you have to graduate from college. I'm like. So I looked at the curriculum and said I need a curriculum or it can be online. So I can, because I'm traveling back and forth from LA to Virginia beach to try to keep my family together. So I got a program that allowed me to do that. And the gentleman who got this all started I said hey, sir, I got into USC but I'm not going to be able to afford it because I have to go from full-time to part-time, so I lose the educational benefit, right? And he looked me straight in the eye and said well, no, son of mine is paying for college. And he worked it to where I didn't have to pay a dime for my master's degree.
Speaker 1:Dude, and that is so I'll tell you. You know we all got a mentor. You know, every now and then, if you look at your military career, there's a career where you had somebody took care of you. You know that's how we all get through life, man, but somebody saw something in you to get that all put together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I found out. I was like so what do you do anyway? Oh, I'm a trustee at USC.
Speaker 1:So I was like, of course you are. Of course you are, dude. That's amazing, what a great story. So here you are, right, and I think I'd like to dive into that a little bit, and I definitely want to promote your book before we leave. So here you are in this amazing place, but you've gone through some really significant challenges.
Speaker 1:I mean, we just talked about all the trauma you had, not only as a child, but then as an adolescent, then as an adult, then with you know, combat deployments and all that. Yeah, what have you done to that? You know, when you talked about getting out of the army and I mean out of the Navy and being, you know, obviously depressed and trying to work through those struggles, what helped you, um, get from that point and uh, and I was there from a depressive state, not from a brain injury state to where you are right now, because you sound healthy, you sound whole, you sound, you sound really, really well, and I think that's amazing. So what have you done to get, to get to where you are, to the Mark Green that we're talking to today?
Speaker 2:are to the mark green that we're talking to today. Well, I just I did a ton of research and somebody would say, hey, have you tried the brain treatment center? I was like, no, they're like, well, here's what it is and somebody's sponsoring it, so go ahead and go and a part portion of that would work. And then somebody said, hey, do you get enough sunlight? I was like, what are you talking about? Well, if you get enough sunlight in a certain amount of time, then it's going to give you some vitamin D and it's going to reset your circadian rhythm. And I tried that and I was like, okay, well, that piece of it works.
Speaker 2:And have you been to therapy? I was like, yeah, I'm not really big on therapy. Well, have you tried EMDR? Have you tried trauma therapy? I was like that sounds hokey, this modality called EMDR and it basically it takes trauma just a blanket term of trauma, whatever you experienced in life or in combat, and it really just.
Speaker 2:Instead, it takes it from the fight or flight center of your brain and it just relocates it to it just being a memory. So when you, when it stays in your I think it's your amygdala if it sits in that center of the brain. You're going to relive it, although as soon as you think about it your heart rate's going to spike and you're going to be back into that situation. But as EMDR works, it takes it from that fight or flight center and then it just moves it to a different part of the brain and it's just a memory. So then I tried that and then my final thing was something called neurofeedback.
Speaker 2:Okay, and basically and I'm not going to explain this well, so hopefully we can um get somebody who's more articulate on it, but basically it's it's holds up a mirror and it says hey, mark, here's what your brain's supposed to look like. And then the treatment shows you what your brain's supposed to look like and says in the mirror, look into the mirror and through the modality it realigns your alpha, your beta waves, and it just realigns everything. So emdr um takes it out of a, takes it out of your fight or flight and em, or neurofeedback, puts it in a file cabinet in the way it's supposed to look but you had to do this.
Speaker 1:You had to find this all out on your own, like there's nobody guiding you saying, hey, here's some treatment options, because uh, have you done any psychedelics at all like that?
Speaker 2:no, okay, I didn't do the psychedelics, because what I did and how I, how it worked for me, I was like, okay, I'm, I'm back to my normal working yeah, you don't, you don't need to, you know, but it's uh.
Speaker 1:But the point is and that's the thing that we're trying to work on right now is that you should have guidance and we should understand that when Mark gets out and Mark's played football and he's been a range safety officer, he's been a Navy SEAL, he's been a combat deployments, blah, blah, blah blah that Mark is going to have some damage to his brain, have some damage to his brain, and whether he realizes it, or, and if we look for some of these psychological and behavioral disorders that are indicators that his brain's damaged, we got to fix the brain.
Speaker 1:And somebody should be going to our veterans and saying, hey, you know, here are some of the things, because no brain's alike, nobody's brain, you know, because nobody's going to have the same amount of impact that you've had in your life. So there's no way to quantify medicine, but there are a bunch of modalities out there that can help, and so for you to take that journey by yourself I mean for yourself means that you value yourself and you. That's so amazing that you you just didn't, you know, you didn't give up on yourself Like, and unfortunately, a lot of our veterans. They get to a point where they don't have nice job packages. You know they got BCDs or other than honorable discharges and they're out there struggling so hard and there's no guidance for these guys and just people aren't trained. So for you to go through that journey is that in your book? Is part of that journey in your book?
Speaker 2:Yes, basically the book is really that journey. But there's a story in the book to where I had a moment, to where I just I was in home depot, got gotten a divorce and had to move into a new house and I had my, my notebook and I needed to get blinds for the for the windows and I wrote all the measurements down in my little book and I went in Home Depot and Bruce, I think I went through putting the blinds in my cart and taking them back out at least 10 times and I just couldn't solve that problem. And I had my daughters with me and finally my daughter Evan. She could tell, she could tell us like something this is not that hard and if she hadn't been there I would have grown, I'd still be in home Depot trying to solve that problem because I just yeah roots and everything, but I just couldn't solve it.
Speaker 2:And she looked at my book and she grabbed each item and put it in the cart and she's like okay, dad, we. And she grabbed each item and put it in the cart and she's like okay, dad, we're good. And then she finally asked is like dad, are you okay? And I'm like, no, honey, I can't solve this problem. She was 10 and solved it. Oh lord, 10 years old, and I'm just like, okay, and that was the catalyst for okay, do you need? You need to get some help? And that's when I really just opened up my mind and said what's out there? And then one thing led to another and in our conversation you said, hey, have you tried psychedelics? And it's like I haven't. So you know, I'm going to go research what that looks like. I haven't heard about it and I've heard that guys are going out and it's really helping. So, because I still don't sleep very well and that's the last, I'm coming out, yeah, we can talk on the side.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm coming out for a psychedelic program next month but it's not sponsored, it's pretty expensive, pissing me off, but God's been good to me so, but you know. But yeah, there are these other modalities. There's, you know supplement out there that we found out. Photoneurofeedback and photobiomodulation are just one of 10 or 11 different therapies that are out there. But you got to pay for them. I want to get these things. I feel that they should be covered by insurance and TRICARE. We did this. Mark Green committed no crime. Mark Green joined the Navy to defend his country and support and protect our society. And we sent Mark Green to war. Okay, we, you know, enabled you to become one of the best of the best, right, navy SEAL man, badass, right. But there's a price in society that we refuse to acknowledge, nor that we refuse to pay.
Speaker 2:And we owe you.
Speaker 1:Okay, you know you have done amazing things on behalf of this country, as many, many hundreds of thousands of other veterans have, and we have a huge hole of pain, carnage, suffering and silence that needs to be addressed, and it has to be addressed through legislation. There's got to be a big check written for this so veterans can get the coverage they need, and for you to be sitting here with a book telling your story is amazing, and I absolutely want to thank you for sharing this journey with us and opening up, because you know spec ops, guys, man, we don't do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:But you know that's guys like you that allow the human side of this to get out there, because we're all tough, you know we've all done hard things, but we're not good at being human sometimes and I think you know you've taken those steps. Talk a little bit about your book. Where can we find it? Is there a website? Do you have? You know, this is the time where I'll turn it over to my military career and that but that's a very small part of it.
Speaker 2:The major part of the book is just my journey and struggle and triumphs of transitioning and it's really a it's. It's no ego and it's just. I really want the veteran. It's on a micro level. I want the veteran to read it and say, oh, this is familiar and let me go do some research on my own. But on a on a macro level, I want the because everyone goes through the entire family goes through transition. It's not just a service member, you know, and I want a child to read this or a spouse to read it and say, hey, honey, you should read this because this is what you're going through and it has some good nuggets in it. And that's really what the book's about. It's not a hey, look what I've done and mimic me. It's like, hey, man, I struggled and I worked at one of the highest levels and this transition got me one of the highest levels and this transition got me.
Speaker 2:And had I not had the support that I needed, then you know I, I don't think I would have survived it. And you know I, I, there was a point in time where it was. It was for a couple of hours because I wasn't good at any one thing, right. I moved to a new city huge city and I wasn't good at navigating one thing. Right. I moved to a new city huge city and I wasn't good at navigating the city. I went to a new job in a new career. I wasn't quite good at that. I was getting divorced, so I wasn't a good husband and I wasn't a good father. And then that crept up in my mind. I was like, well, what if I'm just? What if the world is better off with me not being here? What if the world is better off with me not being here? Wow, right.
Speaker 2:And then I had this dear friend in LA who had a similar experience and she just happened to call and say, hey, are you okay? I'm like, no, I'm just, I'm struggling and have guns in the house. So if you could do me a favor and just come over and get the guns out of the house for this the small amount of time. And she said, hey, you know, know, we all love you around here, right, and you're valuable and you being around is better than you not being around. And that was just enough of a catalyst to say you know what? You're right, I have all these great things in life and I'm just going through a rough patch. So, in order for me to get back to healthy again, just come over, get the guns out of the house and then, um, we'll, we'll figure it out from there.
Speaker 2:And just, it was just person after person. It's like, hey, I understand what you're going through because the friend of mine I'm talking about she had had an attempt as well that she survived. So she knew exactly what was going on and she said the one thing I wish somebody would have told me is that you're loved and you're valuable and we care about you and life is going to be better while you're still here. And she's like your journey's not over yet and I'm going to make sure that you make it. And I was like, damn it All right. So yeah, and that's really what the book's about. It's stories like that that it just highlights a struggle with no ego in it. And this is my journey and I hope it helps. I hope it resonates with you in some way that you do realize that please don't take a permanent solution to what's often a temporary problem.
Speaker 1:That is a very powerful last statement right there, mark. And a lot of times, guys like us, we don't give ourselves a break, and I've realized this.
Speaker 1:I'm almost 62 and I finally learned to like myself and give myself a break, and I think, and I hope that you have it sounds like you have because we all need to pat ourselves on the back. We all have done, you have done amazing things and you do have value, and that book just is additive value to what you're providing our community, our society, and I thank you so much from the bottom of my heart for your sacrifice, for being transparent and open with us today, for helping our society. And I thank you so much from the bottom of my heart for your sacrifice, for being transparent and open with us today, for helping our listeners and the people that they know that are struggling from mental illness as a result of the military service, and that there are paths ahead that lead to wholesomeness and health and joy. And you're living that now. So hats off to you, bro. I can't wait to meet you in person someday.
Speaker 1:I get out to California very rarely. It's a long trip, but when I do, man, we're going to have a beer. I've been teaching Navy SEALs how to drink and fight for a long time.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm up in Virginia Beach, so I'm up in Virginia now. Yeah, I'm not in California anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah ah dude ah, east coast man. Yeah, I'm in florida.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh great, so you know if they want to pick up the book, it's at the mark greencom. That's the website. Um, it's also available on amazon. Um, if you get it on amazon, please leave a review, because interacting with it on amazon pushes it up in the algorithm and hopefully it gets to the right people. So, um, that's amazing yeah, if you're struggling.
Speaker 2:Just, uh, give it and and the kindle version is a dollar because it's not about finances. You know, I have a good job and have good retirement, so it's not about finance, it's about getting the word out. And if you have a dollar to spare, just go on kindle and and get the book and hopefully it'll change. Uh, it'll be the catalyst that you need to, um, take the first step on your marathon, because first steps the artist.
Speaker 1:Good that, that that's amazing. Now, we'll. We'll definitely, when we, uh, when we publish the broadcast, we'll be putting uh, you know, the, the, the'll be putting the website so people can find it, and we'll keep that going. Okay, thank you so much for your time today.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, Bruce. Thank you, man.
Speaker 1:Great story. All right, take care boss. All right, you take care, thank you.