Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman
Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman is presented by The Mac Parkman Foundation
The mission of this show and the foundation is To serve as a source of information, resources, and communications to the community of parents, coaches/Athletic trainers, medical staff, and athletes that are affected by sports-related concussions and to raise awareness of the long-term implications of concussive and sub-concussive trauma to our children.
Broken Brains will also explore how Concussive Trauma impacts our Service Members and Veterans.
Join us every week as Bruce interviews leaders and experts in various Medical fields, as well as survivors of Concussive trauma.
Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman
#5 Unseen Battles: Resilience and Healing with Green Beret Damone Brown
Join us for a deeply moving conversation featuring Damone Brown, a decorated US Army Green Beret, Ranger, Special Forces Combat Diver, and chaplain, as he sheds light on the invisible injuries that plague our servicemen and women. Damon shares his personal experiences from multiple deployments, highlighting the unspoken challenges of recognizing and treating head injuries in the military. His new book, "Black Men Can't Swim," serves as a poignant backdrop to our discussion on mental resilience and the power of personal strength.
Damone bravely recounts his struggle with traumatic brain injury (TBI) from his time in service. His story underscores the long-term effects of head injuries, including the loss of photographic memory and the battle for medical recognition. Damone's experience illuminates the unwavering camaraderie and dedication within the military, as soldiers push through immense risks for the sake of their mission and brothers-in-arms.
This episode delves into the holistic approaches needed for veterans' mental health recovery. We explore alternative treatments and the crucial role of spiritual wellness, with Damone sharing his own healing journey through innovative therapies like Ibogaine and 5-MeO DMT. This conversation not only highlights the broader cultural context affecting African-Americans in fields like swimming and special operations but also emphasizes the importance of sharing one's story to inspire and empower others. Join us for an episode that honors the strength and resilience of our veterans while advocating for better recognition and treatment of head injuries.
Produced by Security Halt Media
and how we are trying to spread awareness of the issue of repeated head impacts on contact sports and how it's affecting our kids and professional athletes and repeated blast exposure and training which is affected and affecting so many of our military veterans. And today we have a very distinguished and wonderful guest from our Special Forces community, of which I used to belong back in the day, mr Damone Brown, who is now getting ready to release his new book Black Men Can't Swim and we'll dig into the title on that because there is a lot there and I can't wait. But I want to introduce Mr Brown and state you know he's a decorated US Army Green Beret Ranger and Special Forces Combat Diver and if you're not aware of this, I think this puts him in the elite of the elite. I mean, I am a whiskey niner and I think what's, what's combat that whiskey seven or whiskey, whiskey, whiskey, whiskey. He served in many positions within the DOD to include serving as a contractor for the US Army Asymmetrical Warfare Group, which I had many, many friends are over there with you, sir and the DIA. He's had multiple deployments to Afghanistan and South America and has been awarded medals for heroic action in combat in service for the United States Army.
Speaker 1:He continues to support our nation as a chaplain Thank you so much for that, sir and for the Maryland Defense Force and is currently a PA student at Liberty University and we'll talk about his book there. But I can't wait because I mean you talk about some of the bullets here about conquering your field and strengthening your mind. I don't want to take your thunder away but, damone, welcome to the podcast. Really appreciate you being here. And you know, I know there's I mean, I don't even know where to start I mean with our focus on, you know, broken brains. With broken brains comes broken people, and I know that you know, as I think you're serving in a position as a chaplain, are you not? You probably come across many of these broken folks that are out there right now that are struggling.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah. First, bruce, thank you so much for the opportunity to be here. It's an honor. I'd love just anytime I can get to have a chance to sit with a fellow Green Beret. It's always an honor and a pleasure. So I know I'm in good hands and I look forward to the conversation. So I know I'm a good hands and I look forward to the conversation.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, as a chaplain, there's definitely people that I come in contact with that have had significant injuries head injuries and so forth but I think part of the population I got out in 2009 and it was part of my issue there wasn't a lot of research out there regarding head injuries and so forth, a lot of research out there regarding head injuries and so forth and even still so, 14, 15 years later, we're still in a position where the people I come in contact with oftentimes don't realize that they have an injury. They haven't accepted it, and so it's hard to get help. So it's hard to get help if you don't know you need it, and it's also hard to offer help to people who don't need it or want it.
Speaker 1:Well, sir, I mean and I'm sorry to jump ahead into what you're doing with these folks Tell us about your experience. You know, we know that part of the problems are since 9-11,. You know, I retired in early 2001 as a very angry Vietnam vet range sergeant major. That just didn't fit in with anyone. I'm the guy that would beat you up, but I wouldn't give you an article 15 and ruin your career. Right Didn't fit, so I got out. But since then, you know, I've watched as a defense contractor. You know the military really sharpen itself and and and train harder than ever. So you know, talk about. You know, your, your, your issues with.
Speaker 2:You know the head injuries you said you you, you, you, you've had, uh, you, you know your own, um, you know your your own experience with this. So so what happened? Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, I was an 18 Charlie and so, um, I think you know multiple impacts and blasts just from doing your job. Um, you know, sometimes the formula P for plenty is often used when you're, when you're thinking about demo and stuff like that. But, um, you know, just being around it, uh, through starting in training and then in real world scenarios, um, it's part of your job and, um, you know there's no way to protect yourself.
Speaker 2:So you're taking that pressure onto your body, you're absorbing that pressure, especially in kind of close impact areas and holes and things like that. Your body's always absorbing it. And we just thought it was a thing. We really didn't understand how that pressure and how it compounds and what it really does to your internal organs. So I think sometimes when we look at IED blast, we look at the carnage people are missing limbs and things like that but really that isn't what's doing the damage. It's if you thought of, like a Coca-Cola can or something like that, and if you stepped on it and just what that looks like in slow motion, as it just kind of rips itself from the inside out. That's what happens when we're exposed to all of the confined pressure.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, 2009, we were on a mission just like any normal day, and the vehicle I was in hit an IED and we were in vehicles at the time RG33s, so they're very safe. They're built to absorb blast, blast and, uh, just by god's grace, we were in that that day. Um, so, yeah, just absorbed, are designed to take the blow. And, um, even still, the vehicle went up and over and I probably hit my head. Uh, you know, going up, hit, hit the top of the roof. Um, I always think of, like man of Arms, the human character where you're just getting crunched. And then I blew out two discs in my neck and then blew out my back. From there I was rushed to a local hospital inside Afghanistan. It was a foreign nation hospital. They basically just took an x-ray and said you're good, nothing's broke. And so I did two or three more missions, but I knew something was wrong. I was just immediately different. I was in excruciating pain, I had headaches and things like that, but I had about a month left.
Speaker 2:So before this last deployment, I was actually going to be direct commissioned as a chaplain. So I was leaving SF and my goal was to be a chaplain to SF guys and Rangers and so forth. My mom was an active duty Air Force officer at the time and she was getting ready to retire. So that was kind of my rush to get back before she retired, my my rush to get back before she retired. Seventh group actually decided to that they would commit to getting me home in time to leave an early deployment. So they I said, yeah, I'll do this last one, last deployment if you get me home in time for my mom to commission me. And so I had my orders.
Speaker 2:I did a couple more missions and you know, when you come back you're just kind of you rush through kind of the the clearance process and stuff like that. And so I was just like, hey, I'm good, you know all the questionnaires and stuff like that. I just and I knew I had to exit the army and get back in. So I really didn't want anything on my record. And back in that time people didn't know if he had like diagnosed with PTSD or brain injuries, um, what that would do to your clearance and things like that. So you know, I just pencil, whipped it and just like I'm good.
Speaker 2:But I got out and during that time, that year that I was completing seminary, I noticed that I was not good, you know, and I started to have effects and I had a lot of combat deployments, no issues. Before getting home I was blacking out. Middle of the day. If I got my heart rate up, I'd just black out for no reason and then at night I was starting to have nightmares and things like that and couldn't remember anything.
Speaker 2:So I grew up with a photographic memory and I think this is the biggest difference in me, as that was gone, I couldn't uh, the army sent me to uh Duke at the time to see a specialist and he was supposed to be the best guy, um, in the country, uh, as far as traumatic brain injuries. And when he was just doing his intake with me, um, it's like simple math questions and, uh, I was like I have no idea how to do this, something's wrong with my brain and he starts chuckling, you know, and that just blew my mind and obviously I was angry and I just couldn't believe it. I'm like I'm not an idiot, something's wrong with me and it was just. I think the brain's a remarkable thing. It took a long time but I've lost that photographic memory. But there's some resilience there and my brain functions differently, but it does function.
Speaker 1:So you had your IAD incident there, and so let's talk about why you stayed. So we always talk about the love of our brothers. I mean, I've been out of the Army 23 years and I must dream about being in the army twice a week. I mean, there's something there that I love and I miss, which is obviously, you know, the brotherhood. So explain to our audience. Number one what is an 18 Charlie? Right, because they have no idea what you did for a job. And then, number two, you know why is it so hard to leave your brothers, I mean, and your sisters, right? Why? Why, especially in a combat deployment, you chose to stay, with bombs and bullets and all that stuff and go on. So you know, can you comment on those things?
Speaker 2:18. Charlie, basically you have two jobs. You're an engineer, so you're building things, and you're also kind of a person that does demolitions, so you're also the person that carries the charges, and any time that a cache is found you're blowing it. If a door needs to be opened, you're blowing that and stuff like that. If there is an IED, then you would tackle that and try to disengage the IED. But we've learned very quickly in Afghanistan that everything could be trapped, so we would try not to touch it, just get away with it, put block of C4 on and back up as far as we can and get rid of that. So why would I stay? Yeah, I think just going back a little bit is I grew up both my parents were in the Air Force. I was a third generation military from my side of the family, but I grew up saying I don't know what I'll do with my life, but I will not join the Army or join the military at all. I would not join the military.
Speaker 2:And really it was because I moved a lot. I went to three different high schools, I was an athlete and that just messed up my social life, you know. But you know, at the time I joined right after 9-11 and there was a calling there. There was definitely a calling and my parents were Air Force. So I didn't really know much about the Army when I joined. But when I joined I had like an greeting of the day, you know, morning sir. You know, like people look at my left shoulder and see I had nothing there and be like whatever and just keep walking. And so I knew there was something to the elite and being a division one athlete, coming from that realm I had. I still had some of that in me and I just like, hey, what's the best thing in the army? Like what's the hardest thing?
Speaker 2:And people were saying you know the argument, ranger, special forces and um, one of my mentors initial mentors was a chaplain assistant but he came from the ranger regiment and so diver and all that stuff and uh, and I saw the respect that he got and I'm like that's what I want to do and uh, you know, but I was a soft skill MOS at the time, and so he made a deal with me. He didn't want to let me go because I was his right-hand man, but he said, hey, stick with me for six months to a year and I'll send you to seventh group and we'll try to get you to ranger school or selection or something like that. And so, yeah, I got there and just kind of that path got me to the point where it was meaningful. That brotherhood that I accepted was meaningful, I loved, I saw that my opportunity to be in the army it was an opportunity, no one made me, I volunteered for it To join that brotherhood was a distinct opportunity and I really saw it as an opportunity.
Speaker 2:So, joining the army I think in 2002, there was an article came out in the Washington post that 2% of uh SF were were black, and so I knew that was a rarity, um, but it wasn't because, uh, black people couldn't or didn't belong or whatever. It was just I think, uh, it was just something that we didn't do. Um, and I think a lot of it had to do with access and things like that. But having got to that point, I really really felt that it was a privilege. I had grown very close to the people I served with and I felt this pull that I was letting them down to leave was to let them down and to fail essentially, and so that's always a hard decision. I mean, even now. I'm 47 years old, I've been out of the Army for a very long time and I still like find myself calling the National Guard recruiters you know if I can get back in and stuff like that, yes, I remember when the towers blew up I tried to get back in and go.
Speaker 1:Nah, we got enough of you, sergeant mages. I said what if I go beat up a Colonel?
Speaker 2:They said, nah, like, we got enough of you, like, ah no it wasn't amazing, so you were actually a chaplain's assistant when you joined. I joined as a chaplain assistant. Yeah, I had the worst recruit in the absolute world, um, you know, I was thinking about going in as a chaplain, um, and I knew if I tried to finish seminary while working, it would take me no-transcript. Joe Sarnes was laughing Like what do you think you're going on vacation? I literally had a suitcase at basic training. It's a pretty funny person.
Speaker 1:Probably no wheels on it either. Wow, man, so that I've heard of some unique pathways in the special forces. Man, I, you know, I was there for 18 of my 21 years. Uh, that is one of the most unique that's. Uh, that is a great story. What sport did you play, uh, when you were in, uh uh, division one?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I was a football player and I said that in about two years, um into that, and then I ran track um, it's a university of Maryland, you played football as a kid?
Speaker 1:I sure did, sure did, yeah. So let me, uh, let me ask you cause I do want to talk about you know being a racial minority in special forces and what that means to me and what, and my experience with that Cause. I think that is critical that we cover that part of your story. But you know we're also, you know, in my world. You know you might have read a little bit about my son I lost to. You know suicide. You know contacts forced all nine yards we're now understanding we talked to the military about. You know repeated blast exposures. That you know.
Speaker 1:Just thinking about maybe some of the exposure you had to repeated head injury impacts as a child. Then you know going through high school, then going into college and then you know joining special forces. So you know in your mind, while the IEDs were, you know obviously an issue, that IED event, that one event, was also an issue. I mean, do you believe that your profession, as that one event, was also an issue? I mean, do you believe that your profession, as I mean the 18 child, is the explosive experts on 18, right, I mean that's what you guys do. You build things. You also destroy it better than anybody in the world Right. And then, coupled with your sports history, you know, um, do you, do you think that you know what the, the, the, the, the, the impacts of sports and your career, not counting the IED uh, do you feel like you were already kind of being impacted by that before the IED event, or did the IED event just kind of trigger everything?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm, I'm positive, bruce. I uh, you know, I remember growing up playing football and there were the mindsets a lot different than now. So I still do a little bit of youth coaching and things like that, but the mindset's different. It wasn't technique involved in tackling other than, you know, get low and try to one person trying to run over the other person, so there's a lot of head to head contact. Head to head contact. Um, we actually had the, the mindset of our helmets. So, um, our helmets were a badge of honor. And so when you got like little skid marks on your helmets, those were big deal. You ran off the sideline point into your helmet and, um, and you didn't polish your helmet up and that was until the end of the season. And so at the end of the season that was like hey, who hits the hardest by looking at his helmet, you know, um, so yeah, I grew up in that I played both sides of the ball in high school and um, so I got on both sides.
Speaker 2:You know, I was coached by and in my last year in high school in alabama, my high school coach, um, played behind bo jackson uh in in auburn. So he was a monster. He put he, he still hit us like we were in full pads and he was like that's how you do he. He still hit us Like we were in full pads and he was like that's how you do it. And he'd get up on defense and come straight to us with no helmet or anything on, like he was a monster. Um. I remember specifically, you know I uh scored a touchdown my senior year and he comes back and he smacked me in my helmet and stuff like that and I'm like what's going on? Like I just ran a 40 yard touchdown, you know, broke loose for a touchdown, and he's like that's not why you do it. And so he like if you didn't lower your head and run people over, like it wasn't good enough, and so that was the mindset yeah so Alabama is a football crazy state.
Speaker 1:We're here in Florida, man. It's a crazy state. We're here in Florida, man. I mean, they are nuts about it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, Absolutely. And you better be on the right side of Alabama-Auburn argument for sure. Find yourself in an alley if you say the wrong thing. You know it's pretty funny. Very serious about football down there.
Speaker 1:Man, that's amazing. I mean, yeah, because that's one of the things. So, just a sidebar, you know we're really pushing hard to take all contact out of kids until at least the age of 14 and then, um, making them, if they're going to play a contact sports, you know, focus on one and not play that all year. I mean you can play football year round now. I mean you can play for the school, the, the. You can play for the, the, the, the, you know, the, the for the local team, you can play for the travel team, and these kids are playing.
Speaker 1:God didn't make these brains, our brains, to take this much trauma and there is a limit. So would you be in favor of eliminating just playing flag football until high school? Let the brain develop and I can go into all the science on another podcast, but we're looking to go to flag to 14. And then in high school, if we just played like the NFL and took contact out of the practices, we could eliminate 80% of the exposure and these kids could still look you're probably not going to join, you're not getting to the NFL. I'm sorry, but at least if you do, all my NFL buddies are a mess. They'll tell you too, man, I'll be like, ah, dude, but they all would play football again.
Speaker 1:I just wish we could make it a safer sport. What's your, what's your opinion on that as Paul?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I definitely agree. I think there are to take it out. So I think there are some solutions. You know we had made a move to using robotic tackling dummies, but you're looking at thousands of dollars and so that's not. That was a private school, so that's not accessible for public schools, many of the public schools and so you don't necessarily have that. And yeah, if you can't remove it totally through programs, I think it should at least be maybe one day a week or something like that, which is what we tried to do.
Speaker 1:That's good. I mean I would, I mean absolutely. And then what we're trying to do is just get awareness out there. Love the conversion on that, because we just converted a police activity league to flag for the kids. Now the girls are involved. Everybody's fired up.
Speaker 1:They got hundreds of kids off the street and so it's just logic. It's like look my son's story. There's all the research and science, but we'll definitely talk about that. Well, let's go back to that VA appointment where that guy chuckled at you because you said something's wrong with your brain. I'm surprised you didn't reach across and strangle that guy.
Speaker 2:No, I didn't, but I mean it did affect me long term.
Speaker 2:Right, and so that was step one. And then I continued to try to get help, maybe two or three different organizations back then and not the same dramatic negative effect, but they were negative effects. I became like, hey, sign up for this test, and it was just a test, but I got no results and no help. Um, so I would say, probably two or three years after the injury, after being out, um, I played that game of trying to get help, but I was just really a study, um part of a study, and so I just quit. You know I tried to, I stopped getting help Um, and the implications of that over time was was harsh Um, you know I it wasn't really until last year that I went and got something called MERT, uh treatment and that uh helped significantly Um, but yeah, I lived, you know, 10 to 12 years just in that uh state of state of injury, I guess, without help.
Speaker 1:And that's what's you know to me. This is why we also brought in the veterans support group into our son. It's a different pathway to the same outcome. What you're dealing with, you know hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Americans deal with from contact sports, but we've got hundreds of thousands of undiagnosed individuals and we're not, we're not given access to treatment. And now we know that there are. You know there's. You know diet plans, supplementation plans, there's, psychedelics, there's, there's all kinds of electronic treatments out there that are available. But veterans like yourselves, veterans like me I mean I pay $500 for a ketamine treatment and that medicine literally costs $2.
Speaker 1:But it was important to deal with my grief and my own mental health breakdowns two years ago when I was sucking my thumb and I couldn't get out of bed and everything was just hitting me so hard. But we're trying to change that, we're trying to say so. During those 10 years in the wilderness, you know, like Jesus out there just trying to make yourself better, what was available to you, what did you try in order? Or did you just give up completely and say, hey, this is my life from now on, I just got to live with it?
Speaker 2:I pretty much gave up. I mean, I did go to the VA and get like, um, you know, they basically drummed it all up to depression and things like that, and so, um, I was on, uh, like a Zoloft type of thing, but, um, I just made things worse. I mean, I was, I'm a driven person, I've always had energy, I've always worked out, but, um, one that makes you gain weight and or made me gain weight and it made me, I just had no energy, I'd get up and I just felt like a zombie. Um, yeah, I wasn't angry, but um, I also couldn't do anything else you know, when you're drugged up.
Speaker 2:You know it wasn't a, it wasn't a solution for me and I think we you know we often treat the body, but we weren't really treating. I think there's four kind of dimensions for wellness, but we were just treating kind of the social, emotional, physical. We weren't really touching the spiritual. Spiritual background also was like oh well, um, you know, your Bible should be enough and your meditation and things like that should be enough, and and it should be Um. But I think this is a different realm where, um, you have to get to a point where those additional things can be enough, um, but when you're so far down, you need help getting up and then you can add some of the, the uh, spiritual components and things like that to help.
Speaker 1:You know you bring up a good point because we deal with a lot of programs out there and the a lot of them are most of them are focused on therapy, right, and what we're finding out is you can only go so far with drugs and therapy. Number one you have to treat the brain and and I and I have been remiss in this, now that I'm looking at it, I've looked at the things I've talked about and I am a very devout man. I mean, if it wasn't for my faith in the Lord after my son died, I wouldn't be here. And I had two choices I could run away from God, as many people do in my situation, because God has let them down, they've taken their treasure and they turn to anger. Or I could get closer to him.
Speaker 1:And I decided that I'm going to get close to you and and I know that there is a message here there's a there's gotta be, and I know I'm going to see my son again. I just have to wait a little while. And, um and uh, I had 17 wonderful years with the person I love most in the world, but there, there, there should be, and there has to be, a spiritual component to this where, um, you know, and it you know whether it's, you know, christianity, faith-based or whatever it's it's getting people to believe in a higher power. And and uh and uh, did you find that as a component of anything that, anywhere, you went as far as any of these treatment programs, or were you just reliant on your own faith to assist you in that journey?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was faith, but it was. I mean, I think I was. I've always felt between two worlds, so to speak. So you know you had the military one where there I'm like, I'm kind of there's some debauchery in the military.
Speaker 1:Some there's special forces man. Come on, Try to be kind.
Speaker 2:Try to be kind oh yeah.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you a quick. I'll tell you a quick story after you're done, but yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But then, you know, in the church perspective, um, you know people go to the extreme of I'm a pacifist and things like that. You know, I don't think the Bible teaches pacifism, but so anyway, I felt myself in between two. I wasn't fully military and definitely not fully as far as just being myself for a lot of the people I have a lot of friends in the church, but some of it was just, it was a little bit I wasn't at home, I guess, and as far as people understanding me wasn't at home, I guess, and as far as people understanding me, um and so, yeah, that was just kind of the position I was in. And, uh, so, speaking of that, going to military for help, they wouldn't necessarily understand the spiritual side, uh, for some of my friends. And then the other side, going to a spiritual, lots of them wouldn't understand the military side and what trauma I'm trying to come back from.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, and it is. It is difficult and I think a lot of the the our, you know, our dealings with life on the team from a non-spiritual perspective is what we deal. That's how we get through life Right, and I've been there, I've walked that walk farther than most back in the day, I mean I literally had. When I was in the 82nd Jumpmaster School, the chaplain came up to me and he, after I was talking to some of the kids, he goes Staff Sergeant Parkman. He says you know, everybody's name is written in the book of life. And Pensley says I believe yours has been erased.
Speaker 1:That's how bad I was back in the day, man, but the lord finds us all and guides us back. You know, and, and here we are. So let's let's talk about, uh, you know, number one, you know combat diver school. So obviously you know you're an african-american man that we're in. You know, in a, in a, a population that's almost homogeneously white, even though the hispanic, especially. In seventh we had a lot I'm a seven guy a lot we had a lot of hispanics I was, uh, seventh group way back.
Speaker 1:We had a battalion in panama which was probably part of my descent. It was a lot of great place to be, um, but uh, here you are. Why combat diver school. Were you assigned to a dive team? Or is that something you just said, hey, I'm going to do this. And uh, how'd that? How'd that go?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I talk about it in the book. But, um, it's interesting, you know, I showed up after graduation and everyone was gone, you know, um, so they were all doing PMT for our first deployment, um, to Afghanistan. Uh, for our battalion ever. And um, and there was just one like lowly captain in there that was a diver, and I saw kind of how he uh prepped and you know lunch, took his lunch hour to go to the pool and stuff like that, and so I was just intrigued, um, but I joined the army saying two things.
Speaker 2:Like it was the night before I left for um, for at MEPs, and uh, I saw, uh it was like a flipping through the channels. There was a Sears school commercial and I'm like, as a chaplain assistant, you know, going in, I'm like I'm never doing that school, they're getting smacked and they had like bags over their head. I'm like I'm not doing that. And the other thing, I think shortly after it was like a Navy SEAL commercial and whatever the commercial was, I just saw some of the brutality of the water and I'm like I'm definitely not doing that either.
Speaker 1:You can't breathe water man.
Speaker 2:But I had an affection for water growing up and I think you know, going through dive school, you have to have a comfortability in the water. It's not necessarily being the best or fastest swimmer, but just being comfortable. So I had that going with me. I wasn't afraid of the water and I think myself different from other black people, I had access and I think that's really the dilemma. So there's 64% of America USA Swimming came out last year. That's the 64% of black Americans cannot swim and that's a lot, right, yeah, um, and because of that statistic, uh, there's follow-on statistics of of death and so, because they can't swim, there's a, there's a fear of it and when they find themselves in water, oftentimes it leads to drowning, things like that, and that makes the fear grow. And, um, uh, so I didn't have that just because I had access to water growing up. You know, being a military kid, I could go to military pools and things like that Pools everywhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. So I had that. I was a Boy Scout growing up as well, but I still had this thing in me. It's arrogance and pride, but I was like I want to be the best.
Speaker 2:Best of the best and I got there, and you know that was the rumor was like hey, this team's the best, and I'm like I want to do it. And so they were plussing up. We had enough 18 Charlies to go around every. Every team had two, and so I would have been a third Charlie anywhere I went. So initially they went to a mountain. I was assigned to the mountain team and I'm like, mountain team like no, thank you. Um, no, thank you. Uh.
Speaker 2:So again, I'm an E5 at this time and you know, I went to the sergeant major. I'm like I waited a couple of days. I'm like I just can't let this go. I'm like, so I'm major. I talked to him and he's you know he's an old curmudgeon and didn't really want to hear from me, but, um, I just talked him into letting me go to dive school, or at least let me go talk to the team, and that's this is where the name of the book came. So I went to the team, I knocked on the door and I eventually get to talk to the team sergeant. He's like what do you want? I said, uh, sergeant, or uh, master, and I'd like to uh, join the team and go to dive school. And he's like looks me up and down. He's like black people can't swim, slams the door Right, and so, yeah, obviously there's there's a little um fun in that, I'm sure, but it wasn't like a racist thing or something like that. But that's just.
Speaker 1:You know how SF guys are and stuff like that, and so you know how bad do you want it, how bad do you want it.
Speaker 2:Nothing sacred in that show.
Speaker 1:When you get behind the company wall, nothing sacred.
Speaker 2:Well, and if they can find your weakness, they're going to try to find it, and then, when they find it, they're going to exploit it. So that couldn't bother me. But I sat in that hall for hours and I just kept knocking on the door and eventually he was. He heard, you know, my plea and he said all right, we'll, we'll take it, we'll give you a shot. And so, um man, I found I formed great, uh, relationships and stuff like that, but I deployed with that team first without being a diver, and, um, luckily, uh, there were uh three other guys that were just getting to the team as well, that were not divers either. And so we that's all we heard for six months is you guys aren't even part of this team yet. You're not even divers.
Speaker 2:I mean, I came back with a bronze star. You know we did some heroic things and things like that, but it's like I don't care what you've done in combat. You're still not part of this team until you pass dive school.
Speaker 1:And you still got to go through that son of a gun, of a course man.
Speaker 2:That's it. Yeah, I've had great mentors along the way and and, uh, I'm I'm just really proud of that, Something that I've done a small part of my life, but, um, yeah, Well, and that's amazing and that's a great story, because, you know, we find a lot of our younger folks just giving up when the door gets shut in their face.
Speaker 1:So they get the no, they're like, that's it, you know. You know, screw you, I'm out of here, right, and they don't persevere, they don't, you know, tend, and I think that's, you know, something that we as the adults can, uh, you know, help them, uh, overlearn. So what year did you go through dive school?
Speaker 2:Um, so I went through twice Most of us do.
Speaker 2:The first time I was like I was one day away from from me hitting one man comp and I felt this easy exercise and, um, I don't know what happened, but uh, yeah, I failed it. And it was so easy that the Sergeant major he used to be team Sergeant of my team said, uh, did you tell that on purpose? It just, it just doesn't happen. It just doesn't happen. But, um, but that was part of my story is really failing forward. Um, and I think that was part of humility.
Speaker 2:You know we can be puffed up people very arrogant and proud, but, um, part of my story is really understanding that, uh, it wasn't me. You know, like I had these opportunities. It wasn't because I worked hard. I did work hard, but it wasn't because of that. I really think that God had a calling for me and I was positioned for a certain reason to be in that group and just to help, even though I wasn't a chaplain. I feel like I was kind of a calming balm to the team and stuff like that, and that was just part of my story. But yeah, so I started dive school in 2006 and then went back and graduated 2007.
Speaker 1:Good on you, man. I went through the first pool in that, the first new pool in back in 87.
Speaker 2:I was the first class in that big monster swing.
Speaker 1:I hated that thing. So let's talk about where are you going now. Okay, you've, you've, you've overcome adversity. You've overcome, uh, you know brain, you know you know brain challenges, and I definitely can talk to you about all of the treatment plans that were coming across. It doesn't that we can, you know, help you get access with that are showing, you know promise, would you know you know the journey never ends. But, um, you know you're a chapel and uh, and so are you like? You're in the reserve, are you retired or I am retired, so I serve.
Speaker 2:The Maryland Defense Force is kind of a. It's not every state has it, but it's a state government organization so it's a back. You know, the army, their guard and their reserves are back up to the to the regular military, and then we're back up to the reserves and so, um, they'll take civilians. There's no pay involved or anything like that, but um, they do allow you to bring, like your, your rank and you still have to go through schools and stuff like that. So it's kind of weird, but, um, I still wear like my uh long tab and stuff like that and in uniform. But um, yeah, so it's. It's usually once or twice a month, month, and I love it.
Speaker 2:I really love just being around soldiers. A lot of them are retired. Some people kind of come off the street just wanting to serve, but it's an emergency management service for the state so we often get activated and stuff like that. But either way, we drill often and so it's a place that I get to minister and just kind of share my faith and help people along the way. So I love it.
Speaker 1:And do you minister as a full-time pastor too?
Speaker 2:So I actually work in a hospital. I'm a hospital chaplain and I love it. Where do I want to go? So I'm just learning the clinical side now. So I'm a resident and I mean it and compared to Special Forces, I would say it's the second hardest thing I've ever done. Ask the question how do you help someone that maybe, how do you serve someone that's an unbeliever or something like that when they're dying? It's hard. I lose a lot of people each week, but I love the privilege, I love being in there. I don't think it's for the faint hearted. It's definitely hard just to take on that emotional stress and death and passing, but there's actually no other place I'd rather be. I'm hoping to use this to launch into working for a nonprofit or offering like a 24-7 chaplain service for a nonprofit that again specializes in Green Berets or rangers.
Speaker 1:I would definitely like to help you with that as much as I can.
Speaker 1:We are working with tons of nonprofits to try and figure out access. We are writing some legislation for Florida right now to hopefully get funding where all these treatment modalities that are out of pocket right now get paid for. The beautiful thing about spirituality is there's no cost, right, that's right. All you got to do is bring your faith, man, or listen right, there's no charge, right. So you know, there's something that there's a component there that I think as an offering for people that are struggling. They don't know the power of spirituality and the power of faith, and I absolutely believe that once they encounter it, it only helps them in their journey and a lot of them that I've known through the treatments that I've been through.
Speaker 1:There's amazing people just like yourself that committed no crime. You know, you went to war. We asked you to actually do, you know, pretty immoral things in order to, you know, be there and come back to our loved ones, and there's a moral cost to that. There is a psychic cost, psychological cost to doing what you had to do in combat and you should be not. And I'm not looking, I'm not even talking about compensation, I'm talking about you should be made whole as a person and there are programs right now that can absolutely help with that, and I'll talk to you about that. But let's spend the rest of this podcast talking about your book. I mean, so nobody becomes an author. You know, just decided to wake up. I mean, I ended up being an author because I lost my son. So what? Where did the book come from? You know what was your idea, and then what do you? What's your message Like? What are you trying to get across? Who's your audience? And yeah, let's, let's dig into that for a bit, if you don't mind, absolutely so.
Speaker 2:With the book, I think that you know, last year kind of crisis situation for me, I just got to the point where I was done. You know, I was just like it's too much. Uh, I live in constant pain there was unexplained uh, you know, I I'd say we know how to respond and how to act. And so I presented great, you know, I was happy to the outside world and nothing. No one thought that anything was wrong with me but and I didn't understand but, um, my biological father I wasn't raised with him, but my biological father he passed and one of his desires was for me to do his funeral. And so I went down there and it was a hard thing to do, but I led his funeral and preached his eulogy and so forth. And then I noticed, I looked around, I didn't cry, I didn't shed a tear. Was I sad? I was broken inside, but I didn't shed a single tear. And I'm like man, something is wrong with me and that's not normal.
Speaker 2:But I think that's the compounding of. We're taught to not show fear, to not show emotion and things like that, and then it just becomes kind of a part of your personality and it's ingrained in you and it was ingrained in me and I'm a person that needs empathy, to show empathy for my job, but I just wasn't experiencing it and whether I think inside I was often kind of that ranger like, hey, pick yourself up, come on. You know, why aren't you doing this? You should be better by now, and things like that. And, um, that wasn't good as a provider and things like that. Um, but I think that's how I led myself and that's how I led my family and things like that also. Um, but I just got to the point I was like I'm done and I just told my wife and she believed me and things like that, and we just it was a struggle for me to just want to move on, and so I did get help.
Speaker 2:I was able to go through some of the modalities that you're talking about. Mert was a big one. I did some hormone treatment and then I got to take a trip to Mexico. So all three of those things were very, very helpful in my recovery. And I finished Mexico and I just realized I went and just wept for 20 minutes and it was like I hadn't done that in 20 years and I wasn't sad at all, I was like the happiest I've been in a long time, but I just wept and smiled at the same time and I got to go down there with four different former operators and it was absolutely amazing. Absolutely amazing, was it?
Speaker 1:Ayahuasca or.
Speaker 2:Ibogaine.
Speaker 1:I did Ibogaine and 5-MeO DMT. Okay, yeah, I've done ayahuasca. That's another journey that I want to take as part of my research project. Wow, because I do. I want to experience this stuff as I talk about it, yeah, but I will say, you know, the experience coming out of that, I mean it's so people don't understand.
Speaker 1:This is a lot of work. These are not recreational journeys, man. Nobody's down there partying man. I recreational journeys, man, nobody's down there partying man. I mean it is work, what you have to confront face, deal with or stuff, stuff that you haven't. You talk about your biological father not having lived with you. I mean I had a, I had a dad that beat me, threatened to kill me and and, and and I had not thought about him and a lot I didn't want to you, and all of a sudden, bam, there he was like oh my God, what do I do with you now? I'm 62 years old, right, you know, so you know, but you know, on your way back, so this led to you, just you know, you decided to write a book.
Speaker 2:So I mean, I found healing and part of that journey. You know, I just sat down and I think the other part of my story is, um, uh, through the VA, another uh opportunity through the VA. So I went and when, when I got hormone treatment, they took my blood and so they want to make sure my PSA was well before I did steroid or I'm sorry, testosterone treatments and so like, hey, you might want to get your PSA checked, let's check it again. So we checked it again and then I said, yeah, you need to get a biopsy. So I got a biopsy done and I was positive for cancer, got a second opinion in Boston to great cancer researchers and stuff like that. And they pulled my records from the VA like, hey, I just want to know, it's now 2023. Why don't you do anything about this in 2019? What are you talking about? Pulls the paper and shows me and he says, right here, generally zero to four is a good PSA. Mine was an eight in 2019.
Speaker 1:So in 2023 they never got on that they never told me, bruce never told me once.
Speaker 2:And so in 2023, it was like almost a 13. And so, anyway, I rushed and had surgery removed my prostate and, um and I think there's part of that, Like I think that was part of the cause of me uh, I felt, you know, I just wasn't the same anymore. You'd think yeah.
Speaker 1:Gosh.
Speaker 2:But I didn't know this cancer was growing in me and then. So I had it removed, my prostate removed, and then, of course, because I waited so, long.
Speaker 2:I still had cancer because it had already moved beyond my prostate. So I'm still dealing with that. But dealing, talking about that, is that, um, I came face to face with my own mortality. I've seen lots of people die. I've been uncomfortable seeing people die and being around it.
Speaker 2:But, um, and at some point in your training you'd be thinking you become, you come to think that you're invincible, and, um, I think I was still living like that. You know, like, um, nothing's going to harm me, I'm good. And, um, when you have to come face to face with your own mentality, you kind of sit back and say, hey, what changes do I need to make? And so, for me, it was like I want to spend more time with my family, Um, and the other question is what do I need to do that I was supposed to do in this lifetime?
Speaker 2:And, um, the answer was God wanted me to share my story. And so, um, it's not the book's, not an autobiography about me, but it is, um, I do share a little bit about my story, um, just to really share my faith and how I use my faith to overcome obstacles. Um, you know, conquer fear, understand that, like, failure is not final. And really the message to um readers is you can achieve anything that you want to achieve, no matter whether you're you. Don't you doubt yourself or someone else doubts you. You can achieve it, and so I just try to share those lessons in the book.
Speaker 1:Thank you, damone. I mean, you know I look at you as a you know a young man, you know, and, and I, I I don't look at skin, you know, I look at people, you know, and I had to overcome that with my dad and his you know biases and his, his just perception on on life and and, um, and I'm just amazed at your story, sir, I mean, and the fact that you know you look at people with who've have been challenged, like you've been challenged, and so many people do give up or they turn to substance abuse or they blame I don't know society, god, whatever it is, for their life and they don't look at the blessings that they've been given. And then for you to say, look, what can I take from my story and pass it on, is is absolutely amazing. And so, uh, in the title, if I saw that in a bookstore at an airport, I would have to pick it up right there. Man, black men can't swim. So that is, uh, I mean it. Just that came from the story of going on.
Speaker 2:It did Um, and you know there was like a couple of other uh, one concept in the book is, you know, body bag or bubble Um, and so I thought about that as a title Um and my, so my best friend died in that school, um, and so Mark Meyerson, uh, and he died in the pool and he was a stud, like he could bench press, little guy.
Speaker 2:He could bench press 300 pounds, but he also ran under um like a nine minutes and changed two mile, Like he was just a monster. So you know, going to scuba school, you usually send people and you're like good luck, man, hope you make it, you know, whatever. But with him, like he's the only person we've trained and we sent him like man can't wait to die, with you on the other side, like he, we just knew he was going to crush it and, um, he had heart failure doing the tank tread and uh, um, yeah, so just painful. So that was a meaningful part to me. But I think, when I think about that mantra of body bag or bubble um, there was only two ways to leave that school either in a body bag or receiving your bubble.
Speaker 1:And uh, but he lived it.
Speaker 2:You know he could have quit but, um, uh, yeah, you know they did everything to save him. They couldn't save him. But so, yeah, with the title, like selected, it's also meaningful to me, um, and there is a subtitle, so it's it's black moon, black people can't swim, but it's finding the fate of the fire odd, so I wanted it to. I wanted to make sure that, um, that is a common stereotype, like as we started the conversation. Um, there is a lot of history that, uh, you know, in the past obviously black people could swim and it was a part of the culture in Africa and things like that. But through, like, um, fear and slavery, and then access, I think are are big ones that as a culture it's not real popular now that you know, find people swimming, just one because of access and then because of the culture. But, yeah, I love the title. I was a little bit fearful too that people wouldn't be receptive to it, but I love it, I love it.
Speaker 1:No, it's an amazing journey, but I love it. I love it. No, it's an amazing journey and I know that. You know, over the years I was blessed to be a company sergeant major that had two African-Americans in the company. We were the only company in the entire regiment that had two African-Americans in it. One of them is still my good friend to this day. That's amazing. And Kevin Nizel was the other. And they were the funniest guys in the company. Oh my God, they could crack anybody up. And that's where I, you know, I'm always thankful for, you know, meeting folks like you in my life, where you know it's the person, the man that counts, it's not the skin, it's not the religion, it's not, you know, the wealth, it's about who you are. You know, and I think that's why we've always had such a wonderful community in our special operations world, because a lot of these things just aren't allowed to penetrate and um, um anyway. So when does the book come out?
Speaker 2:Um, July 16th. If you don't mind, Bruce, real fast I'll back up, so I wouldn't. On that topic, um, you know, yes, there are like few uh blacks in special operations, but, um, it really I think that uh, uh, it's just, you know, because of the cultural thing. You know, it's not something that we don't spend oftentimes like we're inner city lots of times and things like that, and so having access to even be in the woods, you know, I remember in selection, just grown men, Once it, everyone's fine, but once it got dark, everyone's like this is new and this is terrifying. You're, you know the, the start course is uh, 12 hours long or 10 hours long, whatever it is, and and people can't stand in the dark, and that's when you start seeing grown men cry, and people can't stand in the dark, and that's when you start seeing grown men cry.
Speaker 2:And so for me it was easy. For me because, whether I failed or not, I had every opportunity and no one kept me. It wasn't because of the color of my skin. If I would have failed, it just would have been on me. It wasn't because I had a lack of opportunity or people were trying to guard the tab or something like that, Um, I had every uh bit of access and opportunity. It was just on me, which is which is a great thing about life. You know, I think, um, some of my heroes, like I think Colin Powell, went to Raider school in the fifties or something like that, maybe sixties, and I couldn't imagine, um, during that time. And so, yeah, there's no victim mentality, Like I was able to go, and that's the greatest thing about the Army as a whole is you can make it whatever you want and it's what are you willing to put yourself through, you know, and your achievements and stuff like that, no one's limiting you.
Speaker 1:We need to get you talking to all the recruiting stations out there. My only solution is to lower the drinking age to 18. But it's the opportunities that they created for guys like you, guys like myself, that is so important. People do not believe it, but it is absolutely one of the most colorblind the military in its entirety. We'll never get away with everything, but it is absolutely one of the most colorblind institutions we've ever created and I am, you know, obviously so proud to be part of it. But yeah, so let me. So when's the book coming out? Because we want to advertise the heck out of this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I appreciate it, bruce, so yeah, two weeks from today, july 16th, it'll be out Amazon Barnes Noble things like that so we're super excited to release it. Just from the things that we've sent out already, we've had some great feedback and I know a lot of my community is looking forward to reading it and just hearing the story and stuff like that. I promise my dive buddy did chime in and was like you better not have dived me out in that book.
Speaker 2:I didn't do it in the book, but I'll do it here. I dragged you around the whole time, just kidding.
Speaker 1:Good on you, man. Well, you're up in Maryland and I'm a big fan of crab, so I will definitely be finding some time to get up there and hopefully, uh be sure, some crabs with you.
Speaker 2:That's look forward to it.
Speaker 1:Damone, I cannot thank you enough for having you on the show and, uh, I would love to have you back on after we get the book released. Man, let's, uh, you know, let's. I mean just just having a special forces author and, uh, you know, my buddy, I can't the battle rattle. He wrote, he wrote that one back in the day and uh, but I think it's.
Speaker 1:It's going to be an amazing uh add-on to your journey in life. I'm so thankful for your perseverance and for what you shared with us today. You're dealing with TBI and brain damage and then where you're at right now, but thank you so much for coming on the show. Any last comments for our listeners out there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Thank you for the opportunity. Bruce, I really appreciate you and what you do, so I guess the last part of my story is that when I was looking for help, people like you didn't exist or they were hard to find. So I really appreciate what you're doing. You're making a huge impact and it's vital and it's necessary, so I appreciate you so much.
Speaker 1:All right, well, thank you, buddy man. Well, we'll be in touch pretty soon. Thank you for so much coming on the show. God bless you in your journey and we'll see you soon. Folks, damone Brown, please look for his book Black People Can't Swim comes out in two weeks. We'll be pushing it all over the place, damone. Thank you, you, you, thank you.